DC15 wants to identify as female

[FrogInAHat23]

I'm still struggling to figure out how I feel about this, to be honest. DS (now DD?) wants to identify as female. They are 15. I fully subscribe to the 'do no harm' school of thinking, but it has raised so many questions for me. Saying they identify as female isn't hurting anyone (although there will be some close-minded individuals who are offended by that, which I don't think should be a barrier). However, what do I do if they say they want to use women's toilets or changing rooms (esp if a unisex version isn't available)? They identify as female (and is very effeminate, to be fair). We haven't discussed the whole sex change op situation yet, and I'm wary of bringing it up because I don't want to put ideas in their head (given the risks etc I'd rather they didn't!). DC has ASD and is very young (mentally) for their age. I've been buying them makeup and very feminine clothing, which they wear around the house. I had hoped it would just be a case of having a DS who was more feminine with feminine tastes, but it seems not.

I think my feeling is that, while DC has male genitalia then they ought to stick with unisex and mens changing rooms / toilets. I think. Argh.

What do you think? I know trans stuff is a hot topic at the moment, this isn't me trying to get a response from people. This is the genuine situation I find myself in currently!

It is useful to post where you will get a range of responses from black to white.

There is no value in asking those who will be mostly on one side or another as you will get a skewed view - and remember, no-one else here is invested in your life and not all posters are genuine.

Listen and do your own research and fact checking. Remember that some people and groups/charities have large axes to grind and always ask yourself what they have to gain from their views?

CuriousaboutSamphire

Based on my opinion, to which I have a perfect right. You can think what you want as well. Funny, that. 🙄

My DC’s school is single sex btw, has 2 trans kids and is fully embraced and very very happy at school with a broad and varied friendship group.

So are they the bio sex of the rest of the kids or not? How old are they?

You're not unreasonable to be concerned, we all would be. Your son is very young and may change his mind in due course - unfortunately it is quite fashionable at the moment to identify with opposite gender. Just tell him (and he is a him at the moment, not a 'they' or 'them'), that you will support him whatever happens but that he is too young to be going down the gender reassignment route. He can call himself what he wants and even dress up a bit in his private life but certainly he does not go into womens' toilets or changing rooms; right now there are other priorities, like school and exams over the next few years.

You sound very nice, just carry on being nice and don't make more of an issue about this than is necessary. You don't know how it will all pan out in the future.

All the very best to both of you.

My DS 29 is gender fluid. It's not terrible, we have very different tastes in clothes, but I can live with that.

Your DC can't use women's toilets because they are biologically male. Simple as that.

It's a fact that a lot of us with ASD think we're trans because we don't fit into the norm. I'm a very unfeminine woman. You have to make them see that liking certain clothes doesn't make them a girl.

But your opinion and advice are at odds with reality? That's why I asked. OP has had helpful, fairly respectful advice.

Yet you counsel she doesn't post here. Why? On what do you base that opinion, given the ACTUAL response OP has received!

Why would you seek to push her away from useful advice? Who does that?

Sorry, meant to add @churchandstate

Hello OP,

Can I just say you sound like a lovely parent, you obviously love your DC so much and want to do the right thing, support them and keep them safe and I think that is amazing. If possible can you try and find somewhere online where there are other mums of kids who are going through the same? You'll get a lot of support I'm sure and they will have 'been there done that' which isn't always the case on MN in terms of parenting a young person who is actually going through this. Whatever you end up feeling about it, and whatever direction your DC heads in with regards to their gender, it would give you a bit of support and a place to vent, ask questions etc. Having a group of people who really get it can be so valuable. Could there be something local, perhaps? Or failing that, perhaps online and via Facebook or similar.
I'm not going to give your advice because I haven't been there myself although I do know some young people who are acquaintances who are trans. If you want I could ask them about online resources for you, just PM me if you'd like to.
All the best

What does being 'gender fluid' actually mean though?

Just to underline that the suicide myth is just that – a myth. Transgender supporters say that transgender teens are more likely to commit suicide than non-trans teens and roll out the 'better a live daughter than a dead son' line. This is trans propaganda used by Mermaids and other pro-trans activists.

The research on which these claims are based has been debunked time and time again. Here's Transgender Trend, a group founded and run by parents, on those suicide statistics:

www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

A great many young people who present as transgender are on the autistic spectrum (as your son is) or have other mental health issues or are gay or lesbian. Here's Transgender Trend's take on it:

www.transgendertrend.com/child-transgender-gay-neither/

Transgender Trend offers lots of information that may be useful for you and your son. It's calm, rational and backed up by science – not trendy transgender 'beliefs'.

CuriousaboutSamphire

I don’t have to explain myself to you. Back off, I was talking to the OP.

ItsChristmaaaaaaaaas in DS1's case, it means that he "feels more comfortable identifying as a girl [sic] in social situations". Don't get me started on using the term "girl" for a 29yo.

Have pm'd you.

We are now living in a world where it is becoming more acceptable for people to be open about this (unless of course we go by mumsnet standards

What rot. Happy for everyone to explore how they want to present themselves to the world - it should be encouraged! Bring on men and women who are free to wear what they choose, and follow whatever path they like in life.

Doesn't mean that reality has changed regarding your sex.

OP, do what you'd do if this were anything else - keep an eye out for untoward influences, protect your child from harm, and encourage them to be themselves. Don't encourage them to believe things which are outright impossible (except santa and the toothfairy.. that's OK)

@PhilomenaChristmasPie I still don't get it - sounds complicated!

Please please please delete this OP - Mumsnet is unbelievable hateful towards trans people and especially Trans women!

Your DC needs a compassionate Mum, not one with her head full of transphobic shit.

Firstly, very sorry that your son has been caught up in this social contagion.

Obviously he is not and never will be a woman so it is not and never will be appropriate for him to use women's spaces. It is really important that you teach him to respect women's boundaries. There are excellent trans role models out there who use the correct facilities for their sex. Miranda Yardley and Fione Orlander for example.

However, at 15 he is far too young to be thinking in terms of artificially modifying his body via wrong sex hormones or surgeries. Right now the best thing to do is explore, gently, why he feels the way he does. Do NOT affirm. It will be much more difficult for him to desist (and desistence is always the best outcome) if you use affirmation, you need to allow him space to back down. Don't change names, or pronouns, start by allowing him to wear what he likes, as all men and women can anyway, and reinforce the point that he can never, ever change sex at all, he will always be 100% male and 0% female. Lying to him will not help him long term.

Keep him away from the internet as much as possible and find ways to ensure he uses his body. If you have a dog, have him walk it for example.

Others have already suggested the excvellent Transgender Trend for advice. I'd also suggest 4th Wave Now, which is American but the parents there have years of experience dealing with rapid onset gender disphoria.

Also talk to the school and ensure they aren't going behind your back and allowing him into girls facilities or changing his name or using wrong sex pronouns without discussing it with you first.

Good luck with him. I hope he comes to terms with the reality of his sex and grows up to be the happy, healthy male human being he should.

Mumsnet is unbelievable hateful towards trans people and especially Trans women! sorry but that is just not true. Why say it?

If you see something that you think is horrible, then report it, don't just announce that an entire community is 'phoic.

This may seem harsh but you just have to let him get on with it.
If he wants to try the womens toilets he will, and probably a strapping bloke to punch him like the dad of a 16 year old girl did when a man went in the ladies, saying he was a woman.
Society has a way to deal with people who are different. It's not fair or right, there's all kind of stupid, he'll have to get used to.

You need to monitor his online activity urgently.

I'm not sure it's kind to support the fantasy he is now a girl because he's wearing make up.And he should never be in women's spaces.

ruo you don't speak for me or many other posters on this thread it seems so odfod.

RUOKHUN why are you telling lies to the OP? Why are you so concerned that she might take the excellent advice offered by the lovely posters who are trying to help her and her child? That’s not very nice of you. You should learn to be kinder to the parents of young teenagers that are having difficulties. Be nice. What harm is that going to do?

I think your going to get mixed opinions on here, some are quite extreme. I agree that no one should “change sex” as technically it isn’t possible, and I’m not sure I agree on identifying as something that you are not. However I understand what OP is going through. My dd is the same age and also on the spectrum, she would like to identify as pan, we have spoken openly about her feelings and I’m fine with how she feels but I don’t feel she needs to identify as anything other than by her name, she can wear what she likes, she can go out with who ever she likes, I’m happy for her to be in a relationship with males or females but I believe you are the gender your were born into and your genitals determine this. I do have friends who identify as the opposite sex, I don’t care what they wear or look like but it does feel a bit odd when they use public toilets or changing rooms.