DC15 wants to identify as female

[FrogInAHat23]

I'm still struggling to figure out how I feel about this, to be honest. DS (now DD?) wants to identify as female. They are 15. I fully subscribe to the 'do no harm' school of thinking, but it has raised so many questions for me. Saying they identify as female isn't hurting anyone (although there will be some close-minded individuals who are offended by that, which I don't think should be a barrier). However, what do I do if they say they want to use women's toilets or changing rooms (esp if a unisex version isn't available)? They identify as female (and is very effeminate, to be fair). We haven't discussed the whole sex change op situation yet, and I'm wary of bringing it up because I don't want to put ideas in their head (given the risks etc I'd rather they didn't!). DC has ASD and is very young (mentally) for their age. I've been buying them makeup and very feminine clothing, which they wear around the house. I had hoped it would just be a case of having a DS who was more feminine with feminine tastes, but it seems not.

I think my feeling is that, while DC has male genitalia then they ought to stick with unisex and mens changing rooms / toilets. I think. Argh.

What do you think? I know trans stuff is a hot topic at the moment, this isn't me trying to get a response from people. This is the genuine situation I find myself in currently!

ChocLover27

That comparison of yours is not only incredibly stupid but also incredibly offensive. Lesbians are women! It is in no way equivalent to allowing men who as a sex are far more violent than women and who are far, far more likely to commit sexual offences than women.

It also does not compromise other women's privacy, dignity and religious beliefs when a lesbian woman enters a bathroom intended for women like her.

There would be no ‘sexual’ element to it.

O RLY?

Even when they get naked and have an erection and stand there taking photos to post on social media, boasting about it?

Or when little girls are assaulted in women's toilets by self-identified transgender people who claim to be?

(Can some other MNer oblige with the pictorial/linky evidence please?)

But ultimately, who the hell are you to give permission away for all women who have a legal right so same sex facilities for privacy, dignity and safety?

Thankfully Choc you don't speak for the women who have raped or hurt by men, for young girls who at best would feel embarrassed and worse, unsafe and for women of faith who cannot be around other men unchaperoned. Actually, what's your thoughts on taking away all sex segregation and allowing all men in?

If the men's facilities are dangerous for a TW then I'd suggest they DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

And I'm pretty sure if I'm ever assaulted it's not going to be by a lesbian. It will probably be by a man.

I suggest you google Ladies Toilet Creep extraordinaire J Yaniv.

The good news for your son is that there is nothing wrong for boys in wearing makeup or wearing dresses. Nobody needs a license to buy or wear these things. They don't make you a girl, and he needs to respect women's boundaries, but you can support him expanding the definition of masculinity.

I think Choc has made the mistake of equating tw with transsexuals. At least 80% of tw haven't transitioned surgically, many don't intend to and some don't even take hormones. Their only transition is 'socially' with name, pronouns and clothes.

But it wouldn’t bother me if a trans person used female changing rooms or toilet block.

Good for you. My consent is not your to give away.

Yeah. No sexual element. Right. (That was in a women's - or formerly women's, anyway - domestic violence shelter btw.)

Maybe I’m on my own here....
But it wouldn’t bother me if a trans person used female changing rooms or toilet block. It would only be to go to the loo or get changed . No big deal. There would be no ‘sexual’ element to it.
Should we be saying that lesbians/bi people shouldn’t be using the same facilities incase they have a sexual thought? No we wouldn’t.

Can you see anyone else around you? No? Yep, looks like you're on your own!

Jesus Christ that photo.

Choc?

Maybe I’m on my own here....
But it wouldn’t bother me if a trans person used female changing rooms or toilet block. It would only be to go to the loo or get changed . No big deal. There would be no ‘sexual’ element to it

Would you be happy with a big, burly, bearded bloke pushing his way into a cubicle with you? How would you know if he was a trans woman, a bloke who, today, identifies as a woman or a sexual predator?

Yeas! But that photograph did nothing to change the minds of people supporting the defunding of womens refuges etc. It is, apparently, all good!

Or would this person bother you if you came out to wash your hands and was faced with this, Choc? (In case you can't see it properly, that's a fencing epee wrapped in the trans flag colours, photo taken - again - in women's toilets btw.)

However nowadays if there's any ambiguity tests will immediately clarify the matter. Sex is therefore never assigned at birth any more in developed countries.

Apart from by the NHS: www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

Yeah, the NHS as an organisation has been captured for quite some time, midwives are not so daft and are putting up some determined resistence, thank goodness!

I do think you need to get child mental health services involved. Not because gender fluidity is a problem but to see if there is a genuine need to feel female, or whether he is just gay.

Determined resistance to what? Using the word 'assigned'?

To the whole idea of gender, assigned at birth, change of sex, overriding the mum's desire for female HCPs, the whole pronoun crap.

Doula's too - after a weird moment when one group banned a founding member for her GC stance!

Recently a friend and her midwife colleagues stood up and were visible in their refusal to be cowed by vague threats to their livelihood when they refused to play along. That wouldn't (didn't) happen a year ago within their group.

Nationally seems to be the same, slowly, if posts here are anything to go by!

Why? Do you find that objecionable?

I'm just curious as to what gets under people's collars about this issue. I can understand people getting upset with the idea of a person presenting as a male using female changing rooms. I can't understand getting upset about using the time 'sex assignment at birth'.

I'm just curious as to what gets under people's collars about this issue

No you aren't.

Just let him do what he (she?) wants I suppose, as long as he doesn't go into women's toilets or changing rooms. If he ends up having a sex change surgery when older, then I think it's acceptable to go in the bathroom of the opposite gender.

No you aren't.

??

I can't understand getting upset about using the term 'sex assignment at birth'
I don't think anyone's getting upset, it's just inaccurate, therefore people are correcting you. A baby's sex can't be assigned, it can only be observed (allowing for the fact that more detailed observation may be required in a few cases).

I remember Only's photo of Tyler Porter showing off his erection in a Canadian women's refuge, Downtown Eastside Women’s Centre. He was boasting online about taking selfies in the women's bathroom and throwing oestrogen pills at a woman who asked him to stop.

The people running the centre were very concerned about the poor victim. No, not the woman - don't be silly! The poor transwoman, so obviously disturbed.

Women are Human is a useful site for these news stories:
www.womenarehuman.com/male-transgender-boasts-of-harassing-women-in-crisis-shelter/

And from the women's refuge:
dewc.ca/news/statement-concerning-recent-facebook-and-twitter-postings
"DEWC supports a diverse population including Indigenous women, Chinese senior women, single mothers, women with disabilities, women with addictions, and women with mental and/or physical health conditions. ... Creating and maintaining low-barrier safe space for all women accessing DEWC services is our priority, .... It is important to note that trans women are especially marginalized, facing disproportionate abuse and harassment ..., and have even fewer safe spaces to go."

So tough luck for all those single mothers and their children, and women with disabilities or ill-health.

I can't understand getting upset about using the time 'sex assignment at birth'

Because it's inaccurate, appropriating intersex experiences, deliberately conflates intersex and trans, posits sex as something that can be changed or which is not actually related to physical sexual organs etc

I can't understand getting upset about using the time 'sex assignment at birth'. I get that! But it is one pof those 'thin end of the wedge' things that gets used as leverage into something more.

Like crime stats. A couple f years ago we were told that men's crimes would be repoirted as men's crimes. SOunded reassuring.. but we know that transwomens crimes are being reported as women's crimes... so now, as suggested, there is an apparent rise in female rapist, world wide.

Hate crime was changed. It inlcudes trans hate specifically, but not against women. And is now measured at report not at invetigation or conclusion. So Trans crime rates has gone through the roof over the last year or so.. many of those crimes are women saying "no, not assigned at brth / not women / cam#t change sex, etc" - that is what is actually recorded! A person says "That was a hate cirme, she said transwomen can't be women" and it is recorded as such - some police forces are far more obliging than others and will travel hundred of miles to censure the thining of said woman!

Changing language makes it possible to change perceptions, to make the impossible possible. It is rapidly becoming more and more obvious that this is becoming more so when women want to call a halt to rapid change and to discuss and defend womens rights.

As I am now saying al lot, these are not Trans Issues, they are Women's Issues and we should be heard!