DC15 wants to identify as female

[FrogInAHat23]

I'm still struggling to figure out how I feel about this, to be honest. DS (now DD?) wants to identify as female. They are 15. I fully subscribe to the 'do no harm' school of thinking, but it has raised so many questions for me. Saying they identify as female isn't hurting anyone (although there will be some close-minded individuals who are offended by that, which I don't think should be a barrier). However, what do I do if they say they want to use women's toilets or changing rooms (esp if a unisex version isn't available)? They identify as female (and is very effeminate, to be fair). We haven't discussed the whole sex change op situation yet, and I'm wary of bringing it up because I don't want to put ideas in their head (given the risks etc I'd rather they didn't!). DC has ASD and is very young (mentally) for their age. I've been buying them makeup and very feminine clothing, which they wear around the house. I had hoped it would just be a case of having a DS who was more feminine with feminine tastes, but it seems not.

I think my feeling is that, while DC has male genitalia then they ought to stick with unisex and mens changing rooms / toilets. I think. Argh.

What do you think? I know trans stuff is a hot topic at the moment, this isn't me trying to get a response from people. This is the genuine situation I find myself in currently!

@nolongersurprised to the contrary, I provided evidence and wasn’t coy at all. Please refer again to this article: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/opinion/sex-biology-binary.amp.html. I can reference many others others - but to be honest you can also do your own research.

If y’all wanted not to be rude, you could refer to people assigned male at birth- that’s as far as the facts go. The rest is name calling.

Zebra, you said the child was a trans girl. If so, I understand, that despite her sex assignment she is living as a girl. I’m sorry to hear your daughter shares your sensibilities and prejudice.

I’m utterly exhausted and think I have said all I have to say.

A transgirl is a male child, Bizawit.

This male child wears a boy's uniform, and looks like a boy. Would you mind telling me on what basis this child is allowed to change with the girls? Why have sex segregation at all?

And btw - you just misgendered this child - who still uses he pronouns, (but a girl's name - which is the only thing he's changed) - so report yourself to the police for misgendering a trans child please.

"It’s so painful to have to read this. sad*

Fairytales and delusions are painful to read. Why should we all lie just because a few people have no grasp on material reality? Why should we pretend that human beings can change sex? Thankfully most people understand this is impossible.

You have derailed this thread with utter nonsense.

Women are conditioned to be kind, to appease male feelings. So no, we won't say the emperor's new clothes are glorious, just to be nice, because we are not liars and this colonisation of womanhood is what's hurtful.

But flushed poor old biz is exhausted from all the circles they're going around in and can't possibly answer your question

I suspect Biz will be back to get that last word in...

I should have said *that’s as far as the accurate descriptors go. The rest is just name calling.

Also one last thing @JanesKettle

I am terribly disinterested in the cringing of those who call themselves 'allies' but actually do nothing to help those of us with kids with GD.

You know nothing about what I call myself or what I do.

Oh and bizawit, don't bother with any more of the the insults, and angry emoticons towards my DD, and me, it doesn't affect me. It's not going to shame me into thinking that a male child should be allowed to change with the girls.

Here’s a really helpful article by a biological scientist from Brown Universi That's an opinion piece Biz it even says so in the title. The author says, upfront, that as a biologist and a gender theorist she has an opinion. Many GC feminists actually find that theory very interesting. I could form the centre of a very interesting and long overdue discussion about gendered societies and how we can move to full acccommodation of gender variances. You know, like we tried back in the 1980s when gender bending was out in the open and people of all walks of life got used to seeing overtly feminised men and masculinised women go about their daily business.. and not call it drag or some such!

I am still sat here, waiting for you to explain how DNA does not identify sex. Sadly the skill required to perform a cut and paste doesn't automatically confer understanding of what has been cut pasted!

DNA, gametes and mis replication of genes, all of binary sex - male or female. 2 categories with a myriad of possible deviations that still fall within the 2 main categories and do not make, of themselves, a 3rd, 4th, 78th sex!

And that is quite, quite separate from the ever widening Trans Umbrella based on want, feelings, desires and no deviant biology at all. A psychological basis! A sociological basis.

Well colour me surprised hands who'd have thunk it 😉

Let's see if it really was 'one last thing'

Oh stop it! Your poor science did not persuade, emotional blackmail won't either. You can simply, hide this thread, stop bothering with us nasty old transphobes.

The only person prolonging your 'profound upset' is you!

When in reality a small minority of gay men were/are sex abusers just like a minority of all men were/are sex abusers.

Did we simply throw away safeguarding when we realised it was just a tiny minority? Did we say “oh great, crack on then becoming a scout leader, a teacher in a boy’s school, a youth group leader without any kind of check or balance, no of course you don’t need a CRB or any kind of background check, that would be homophobic, come on in”?

No. We retained - and over time have strengthened - safeguards where children are vulnerable because we recognise that while it is a tiny minority who are sex abusers, unfortunately the ones who are don’t have a tattoo on their forehead telling us that they’re one of the bad guys. Just as we don’t know which men are going to turn out to be rapists and abusers of women so even though we do know it’s a tiny minority, we adopt the proportionate and legal response of keeping them all out of spaces where women and girls are particularly vulnerable.

I cannot understand why there is so much anger and hatred on this thread

And yet you are the one calling posters "cruel and awful".

Funny that.

YOU were the person who referred to that child as a transgirl Yes, and you made the rookie error of thinking that child was female... and then assuming that child's pronouns.

Might sound sily, be exhausting, completely lacking in logic but THAT is the point many posters have been trying to make. Trans is not logical and should not be the basis of any changes in law that affect anyone other than trans individuals, male or female.

FYI - this child is male and wears a boy's uniform. The girls do not want to get changed with a male. What about my daughter, and the other girls?

Your poor daughter, it just sums up that how a boy 'feels' is given more value than several girls security and safety.

It seems that men who identify as women (whatever that means; I couldn't tell you what a woman ''is'' except stereotypes and social conditioning) are happy to violate women's privacy.

There's no respect for women's safe spaces, only transwomen's feelings.

Oh for goodness sake. Of course I don’t know the child in question and have no idea what their gender is

Why are YOU telling me off about it then? And calling me names? This is something that is happening to my DD, and to many girls - why doubt my story?. You KNOW this is happening in schools right now, on the advice of organisations like Mermaids, GIRES and Allsorts - and in places like gyms, shops, everywhere. Males are being allowed to self- identify into women's changing rooms.

Rampaging over this thread, calling us names for protecting women's and girl's boundaries - and then claiming YOU are the upset one? Do you even hear yourself?

@nolongersurprised to the contrary, I provided evidence and wasn’t coy at all. Please refer again to this article: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/opinion/sex-biology-binary.amp.html. I can reference many others others - but to be honest you can also do your own research.

That’s not a scientific article. It’s written by someone who is a professor of “gender” and is in the New York Times.

I don’t need to do my own research, you are the one who is claiming that their aren’t 2 biological sexes and getting hurt when people find that silly.

*there, not their

If y’all wanted not to be rude, you could refer to people assigned male at birth- that’s as far as the facts go. The rest is name calling.

So stating or observing biological sex is name-calling?

How on earth do you cope with day-to-day life?

Why is "y'all" such a big thing among trans activists?

They spend too much online in their echo chamber bubbles and have developed their own weird language

Why is "y'all" such a big thing among trans activists?

Because so much of this ideology is coming from the US.

biz find this conversation upsetting. biz is the one who thinks men - presenting as men - should be allowed to follow teen girls into toilets without comment. I think we can all see biz's priorities and decide whose "upset" is most important.