DC15 wants to identify as female

[FrogInAHat23]

I'm still struggling to figure out how I feel about this, to be honest. DS (now DD?) wants to identify as female. They are 15. I fully subscribe to the 'do no harm' school of thinking, but it has raised so many questions for me. Saying they identify as female isn't hurting anyone (although there will be some close-minded individuals who are offended by that, which I don't think should be a barrier). However, what do I do if they say they want to use women's toilets or changing rooms (esp if a unisex version isn't available)? They identify as female (and is very effeminate, to be fair). We haven't discussed the whole sex change op situation yet, and I'm wary of bringing it up because I don't want to put ideas in their head (given the risks etc I'd rather they didn't!). DC has ASD and is very young (mentally) for their age. I've been buying them makeup and very feminine clothing, which they wear around the house. I had hoped it would just be a case of having a DS who was more feminine with feminine tastes, but it seems not.

I think my feeling is that, while DC has male genitalia then they ought to stick with unisex and mens changing rooms / toilets. I think. Argh.

What do you think? I know trans stuff is a hot topic at the moment, this isn't me trying to get a response from people. This is the genuine situation I find myself in currently!

I would still genuinely, seriously like to know what people mean when they say they feel like the opposite sex. What are they basing that feeling on? Which exemplars of their own and the opposite sex are they comparing themselves to, to reject one and claim the other? What common characteristics do the members of each sex all share - beyond biology, obviously - that someone can point to and say “I also have that, and therefore I am female not male (or vice versa)”?

I feel like my grandad smoking a pipe in the garden, @onlythetitoftheiceberg. Anyone else?

Op my son is ASD and was convinced they were trans.I'd issues are typical in ASD kids and Trans has been scientifically proven to be socially contagious just like eating disorders in the 90s and 2000s. I will see if I can find the thread. We had a horrendous time but today he is a wonderful, 20yo gay, happy male that proudly breaks gender stereotypes instead of reinforcing them. He has hair down his back and wears eyeliner and top hats and is just amazing. No penis being mutilated, no fake oestrogen fucking up his blood platelets and no stress.

Regardless of what route he takes, Your son has no place in the female toilets. He is male regardless of how he "feels". Women have a legal right to sex protected spaces and as a victim of childhood sexual abuse I can't deal with men in my space no matter how they " feel".

Your son sounds ❤ holy

Interesting thread. And, as ever where there is a difference of opinion, incredibly informative.

OP, I hope you've found it helpful.

I am on my phone and can't link but OP there is SO much support in the feminist chat area. I am attaching the screen shots one is a general thread and one is my thread. I can't stress how perfectly normal this trans thing seems to be for ASD kids, I'm even going through this with my younger son now and he knows he will come through it just like his brother did. The cosmetics seem to come and go, they wear the odd bit of flamboyant feminine clothing but are such amazing boys, I couldn't love them any more.

We are having some transition issues with my eldest at uni ( again 100% normal) and he may have to leave and restart this year again somewhere else. But he is happy enough and I thank fucking god everyday that he came through the trans thing intact and the suicidal thoughts passed. I can't stress enough, a good counsellor that teaches him to question gender stereotypes instead of reinforcing them is worth their weight in gold.

Forgot the screenshots 🤦🏼‍♀️🤷🏼‍♀️. These should make it easier to find the threads. My thread is the red one.

Your sons sound ace holymoly and it looks like they’ve had support from a great mum.

Did we simply throw away safeguarding when we realised it was just a tiny minority? Did we say “oh great, crack on then becoming a scout leader, a teacher in a boy’s school, a youth group leader without any kind of check or balance, no of course you don’t need a CRB or any kind of background check, that would be homophobic, come on in”?

No. Instead, we moved away from the misinformed association between homosexuality and paedophilia and towards a place where we recognise that anyone can be a sex offender, regardless of gender or sexuality, and so now require everyone who has a certain level of access to children to undergo background checks, and require all organisations to have safeguarding frameworks in place.

anyone can be a sex offender, regardless of gender

Males, of whatever gender, account for the vast majority of sexual offences. It's not an equal opportunity set of crimes, there. Although some females do offend, in terms of risk management, males pose the greater threat. Not all males are sexual offenders, but 90% + of sexual offenders are male.

Thus, excluding males from spaces where females are vulnerable, can be one way of mitigating risk of sexual assault in these spaces.

It's 98-99% male.

I think this would be really problematic, putting all kinds of people at risk of harassment, including “butch” or masculine presenting women. This would have the effect of entrenching and policing hyper -feminine stereotypes. Demanding that everyone present in an unambiguously “feminine” way. Have you ever read the book “female masculinities”? The author describes exactly this experience, of being harassed in public toilets, because she looked so masculine.

OK. Due to my shaved head, I am what many people refer to as a 'butch' woman. I don't like the term but hey, I'm not gonna get hung up about it.

I remember being challenged by a man in a bar as I was about to enter the female toilets. He said something along the lines of: "Excuse me mate, the gents are that way". I turned around, at which point he could clearly see that I was female. He apologised profusely, I said it wasn't a problem and I carried on.

I absolutely do not think that my thirty seconds of discomfiture over a genuine mistake trumps the need for women only spaces.

In addition, as an exceptionally androgynous looking woman, I can't say that I've ever been 'harassed' when accessing female spaces. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen: I'd be interested to hear other women's experiences. However I absolutely do not think that allowing transwomen into female spaces is a solution to that issue.

you could refer to people assigned male at birth

You cannot "assign" a sex to someone at any time. It is determined at conception and observed at birth.

You cannot "assign" a sex to someone at any time. It is determined at conception and observed at birth

Sex is assigned at birth based on the appearance of the baby's genitalia. There's no need to get precious about that.

It isn't 'assigned'. There's no choice involved. It is observed.

The term commonly used is assigned.

Well it shouldn't be!

The term commonly used is assigned.

By wokesters, perhaps. By those who understand human biology...no.

"Assigned" was, in the past, used for a tiny number of children with ambiguous genitalia. We now have DNA testing.

The term commonly used is assigned.

No it isn't. This is like JAPAB trying to tell us words don't mean anything and that people must be confused because now people use different meanings for words like women and it doesn't mean women and women is not a thing that has a name and and and and and.

....meanwhile the rest of the world goes round knowing exactly what a woman is and what the word means and defines.

The term commonly used is assigned.

Not by the doctors and midwives I know it isn't. In fact, they really resent this politicised and unscientific terminology.

I have NEVER heard anyone in real life use "assigned" at birth. Ever. What bollicks (literally).

Apologies, I can't even spell bollocks today

Maybe I’m on my own here....
But it wouldn’t bother me if a trans person used female changing rooms or toilet block. It would only be to go to the loo or get changed . No big deal. There would be no ‘sexual’ element to it.
Should we be saying that lesbians/bi people shouldn’t be using the same facilities incase they have a sexual thought? No we wouldn’t.

The term commonly used is assigned.

That's not true. The expression sex as "assigned at birth" is an anachronism in developed countries. It was a phrase used by specialists in disorders of sexual development. In the past babies with ambiguous genitals were assigned a sex, and this might later prove to be incorrect. Some DSDs didn't become apparent until puberty, in which case HCP would rightly say that the child's sex had been wrongly assigned.

However nowadays if there's any ambiguity tests will immediately clarify the matter. Sex is therefore never assigned at birth any more in developed countries.