Can we tell them not come for Xmas?

[Tactful10]

Namechanged. Elderly parents in their 80s, both with mobility problems and dementia. DF's dementia has taken a turn for the worse - he;s got frontal lobe problems which mean he moans out loud a lot of the time, complains constantly, is rude, demanding and whiny.

The expression No Filter could have been invented for both of them. DM is similar, and they fight, but not as deranged as DF.

We are worried that their behaviour - the loud cries of pain (no physical cause, doc says it's attention getting), the fighting, the unfiltered whining - will frighten dcs 16, 18, and 10. It frightens me and DH, and we're both knocking 50.

Can we cancel them? if so, how.

Op 9 days is a big ask for anyone to stay. Let alone an alcoholic. Taking dementia away from the equation it would be a no from me. With the dementia, a bigger no. Visit them in their home. Good luck getting more help.

Alcoholic, dimentia, 9 days?

That's a lot to inflict on your children over what should be a happy time for them to remember.

I say this as someone who has had multiple grandparents with dimentia, and yes, the memories aren't pleasant. I hope the 10 year old isn't as upset at remembering a grandparent in that way as I still am. I look back and wonder what a fucked up thing to repeatedly expose a child to (elderly grandparents not coping but insistent on in home care from relatives), it was extremely damaging your kids.

'Op remember you are also getting old, how would you feel if your children treated you like that . You only get one mother and father in this life . Awful'

Not inviting someone, even a parent, for 9 days over Christmas is not the same thing as abandoning them. If I ever get into a state like that (it is NOT even just dementia, but a combination of dementia with a total and frightening change of personality) - which I hope I don't, even if it means dying much younger -, I am sure that the LAST thing I'd want is to be dragged from my familiar home setting to somewhere unfamiliar, where I would be expected to 'fit in' to a special occasion. What the OP really needs to do, and it sounds as though she is trying to, is to expedite the organization of suitable care for them.

No way are you being unreasonable. If my family member could see themself now- aggressive, cruel, spiteful and sexually inappropriate - they would chose to be dead over life, let alone invited Christmas. I know that for a fact as it runs in the family and she always said 'if it happens to me please put me in a home, i just hope i die before it comes.' Well she didn't and it breaks my heart to see a strong loving woman now a nasty shell that's nothing like her. I also live in fear that i will end up the same way, it would be terrible to say and do to my dc/dgc as my once lovely FM has.

It's a horrific disease especially FL and combined with alcoholism. You have my complete sympathy.

Your parents need to be in a specialist supported environment and not out of their routines especially for 9 days.

What about seeing them before for 2 days, staying in a hotel and starting the ball rolling with getting them specialist care? Sometimes, like with my family member, you have to refuse all caring help to force them to accept residential care or help. It's horrible to do but once it gets beyond slightly dotty granny and it's antisocial or dangerous behaviour you have to step up and do the harder thing. My FM daughter refused this for ages and wonders why her older children refused to come when her DM stayed and she cared for her. The truth was my FM dd was selfish, she didn't mean to be but she put her own desire never to put FM in care ahead of her family and herself. Martyred herself because she was so guilt ridden. As a result FM was very hurt physically, became more erratic while the GC refused to visit and the dds mental health declined and she started getting angry and resentful. When FM was put in her home things drastically improved for all their relationships. The dd is clear that her dc will never be allowed to care for her if she goes the same way.

Coming back to give a bit more support to OP. There are clearly a lot of people here who have absolutely no experience of dementia mixed with long term alcohol abuse.

9 days!? That would be a no from me and my folks are perfectly healthy. They’d be getting right on my nerves after 3!

Agree with PP who have said to visit them in their own home for the day or even just take them to a restaurant for a nice meal. I do that quite a bit with my MIL who also has zero filter, but I always speak to the restaurant host beforehand to warn them and tip extremely well afterwards.

'I presume that parents looked after you when you needed them. I'd say it's now your turn. Talk to your children it's for one day tell them they are unwell. I think you are being very harsh.'

It's not for one day; it's nine. A HUGE difference.

Unless the OP had an extreme behavioural disorder when growing up, it's hardly the same thing.

I agree that the OP should not simply turn her back on her parents, but insisting on a nine-day stay just because 'IT'S CHRISTMAS!' is not really fair to anyone, including the parents.

I think your post sounds very harsh, to be frank!

And no, if I get dementia of any sort, let alone frontal lobe dementia, I hope that I am allowed to stay in a familiar environment and not required to adapt to other people's homes and customs, and especially for a holiday where there are all sorts of spoken and unspoken customs about how people should act.

Do they enjoy coming to you or does the upheaval and change of scenery make them stressed or upset? If they have a lovely time with you I think it’d be nice to have them to you for a day over the Christmas period if possible without upsetting the children too much. If not, I’d be inclined to go and visit them for a day bit not 25th . Either way I’d make sure that day, wherever it happens to be, is treated as the big Christmas celebration with presents and Christmas dinner (can you cook at theirs?).

Guilt is a funny thing; ‘it’ll be you one day’ is a bit of a red herring; the illnesses/drinking/whatever that change the outward behaviour also change the inside feelings of that person. If you are uneasy or distressed leaving your own home, particularly for days on end, then it’s not going to feel like a lovely, cosy, family Christmas it’s going to feel like something that’s been imposed upon you at best. If you don’t feel like that and have just got a bit grumpier, forgetful etc in your old age then I’d imagine your family will still enjoy spending Christmas with you.

I've never got the "they looked after you now it's your turn", parents choose to have kids. Many simply can't look after aged parents with complex needs, it takes a lot more than good intentions to do so.

Also I agree a 9 day visit is a bloody long one. Maybe a much loved friend or relative who's flown long haul but it's too long otherwise

Solution! They can go to all the virtue signallers' houses! Do a tour. After all, these judgy people will be happy to come and pick them up, look after them and ferry them to the next house.

I'd actually make plans to leave town, OP.

Anyone who has kids for the expectation that they will become carers is selfish AF. You don't do it to take turns.

And to the pp's saying "my parents have died, I'd give anything to have them for one more Christmas" I'm so sorry for your loss.

My DH is also mourning his mother, she is not his mother anymore. She is a frightened, frightening, poorly, frail woman who is suffering. She enjoys nothing.

Before SS had her placed in a care home she would wander the streets, naked or semi clothed, often covered in her own faeces. She shit and pissed on the floor, in public and in her home. She would bang on the neighbours doors demanding alcohol or cigarettes at all hours. She would stand in her house and scream and wail for hours.

If you left her to go to the corner shop, she would phone the emergency services and say she'd been abandoned/neglected/locked in her home as a prisoner. She set fire to things. She almost blew up the kitchen trying to light an e-cig. She was inappropriate with any male nurses who came to care for her. And rude to the female ones. And she would scream obcenities at everyone. She would spit out her medication

She doesn't like her care home because she knows it's not "home" but she spent the last four years she was at home hating it there too.

She loves our baby and is gentle and kind with him but he also upset her because she thought he was one of her babies and I was taking him off her. She doesn't sleep. She can't be left alone in a kitchen or bathroom or near stairs or open windows or unlocked doors.

That is the reality of alcohol dependency and dementia. Its not funny old Nana, getting her grandchildren muddled up and forgetting their birthdays. Its Nana screaming "you daft fat cunt" at her daughter for an hour and dropping her trousers and squatting and pissing on the front room carpet in front of her 14 year old grandson.

I'd message and say things have changed and sorry we can't come for you.

Could you go and visit them before Xmas, cook a Christmas lunch whilst you're there and swap presents etc.

Or at the worst take them some food, crackers and presents on your own before Xmas.

@Hopefulmama34 you haven't read any of the posts by people who have experience of this have you? It wouldn't even be kind to the OP's parents to take them away from their usual environment for 9 days.

OP, YANBU in the slightest. I cannot believe you agreed to 5 days in the first place, never mind considered 9 days. Your parents need urgent specialist care and to remain in familiar surroundings (to mitigate the risk) until it's been arranged. Visit them at their home, as many days as you can manage. (Maybe your brother can go with you?) Don't bring serious care issues into your children's home.

Even if your father was a horrible person before he was ill (and I'm not saying he was), he would not want to be the cause of serious risk or actual harm to any children - his grandchildren or their friends. This is not how any of you should remember either of your parents. Your "last Christmas together" has already been and gone. It was the last Christmas that you all managed to enjoy each other's company without fear or distress. You need to make your peace with that and focus on dealing with the care issues to ensure your parents don't suffer unnecessarily. I'm so sorry for your circumstances and send you best wishes. I hope you are able to facilitate good care for your parents as soon as possible and that you're able to remember the better times in the days to come. x

I expect that some of the virtue signallers have got fucking dementia themselves. It would at least make their idiotic opinions understandable.

However, I suspect they're just arseholes who cant read and understand more than one fucking sentence.

My mother died before she got old (brain tumour) and whilst I wish she had lived for much longer, when I read threads like this, I'm grateful that I have my memories of her as she was, not what she could have been if she'd lived long enough to have developed dementia.

It's quite late to cancel now. However, perhaps you could have them over for tea if they are not too tired by that time? Or on Boxing Day. How severe is the dementia, would they realise things had been changed? How old are your children ... if they are in upper levels of primary/prep they should have enough emotional intelligence to realise they are elderly and have issues and prob find it funny when they say what everyone else is thinking ... unless they are v anti children in which case another day might be better or where the chidlren can escape after a bit.

@ToTheRegimentIWishIWasThere Your post really resonates with me. My dad is not my dad anymore; he's alive but I've lost the person he was.

She doesn't like her care home because she knows it's not "home" but she spent the last four years she was at home hating it there too.

True of my dad too. It was the right decision to move him into a care home, but even that doesn't fix everything. You are stuck with making the best of a very bad job.

OP, a few pp have said this already, but please don't feel that you have to battle to keep your parents in their home at all costs. It's what many elderly people say they want, but it's still not necessarily what's best for them, and in cases like yours they are not able to make good decisions for themselves anymore. It's tough to realise that you have to do that for them. But that's where lots of us find ourselves.

Lots of people don't seem to understand frontal lobe dementia. Inhibitions go out the window. The classic presentation would be someone previously sensible and cautious suddenly buying a massive TV to watch porn on gratuitiously whilst living off a diet of vodka and smarties. It's tough.

I still voted YABU. I think you WBU to not see them, especially if they are still at home. But 9 days is a huge visit even for relatives without care needs.

I get that DF couldn't have a dry christmas, but is there a middle way? Set some limits so he has his usual level and not a massive christmas sesh?

If it feels unsafe or undoable I'd visit them christmas morning.

A lot of posters on here have clearly got their judgey pants hooked up over their ears. OP try posting on the elderly parents board. There several on there who understand.

@ScrambledEggForBrains please read the post just above yours, where the reality of frontal lobe dementia is laid out for you. Then think again about what you posted.

I cant help but think this is pretty brutal. They’re your parents. Dementia cant be helped, and im pretty sure if they could choose, they’d wish to not have it eithrr.

Suck it up, educate your children and be a decent person. Yes it could be awkward with their behaviour, dementia isnt easy for any party involved. But Christ almighty, its Christmas and they’re your immediate family who are clearly vulnerable/lack capacity to make their own choices. Could you imagine how you’d feel not inviting them if something was ever to happen? I do understand it will make your Christmas slightly more stressfull, but lets hope your children look after you if you get to that point in life

Awkward? Slightly more stressful? Do you understand the condition OPs dad has?

@Niki93 - I have a friend who looked after her dementia-suffering dm at home. She used to pull her skirt up and try to masturbate in front of her grandchildren or whoever happened to be there. Certainly very "awkward".

And I repeat. My current self would on NO ACCOUNT want my future self paraded in front of loved ones if I was to develop dementia. I would much rather be remembered as I am now.