Can we tell them not come for Xmas?

[Tactful10]

Namechanged. Elderly parents in their 80s, both with mobility problems and dementia. DF's dementia has taken a turn for the worse - he;s got frontal lobe problems which mean he moans out loud a lot of the time, complains constantly, is rude, demanding and whiny.

The expression No Filter could have been invented for both of them. DM is similar, and they fight, but not as deranged as DF.

We are worried that their behaviour - the loud cries of pain (no physical cause, doc says it's attention getting), the fighting, the unfiltered whining - will frighten dcs 16, 18, and 10. It frightens me and DH, and we're both knocking 50.

Can we cancel them? if so, how.

have you read mrsspencer's post dontdisturbnmenow?

The people saying the kids should 'just cope' clearly know nothing about frontal lobe dementia (and combined with alcoholism? Jeeze, OP, what did you do in a past life to deserve this?)

Yes absolutely - its horrendous.

OP can you arrange a visit after Christmas instead of over the Christmas period?

You say they refuse help at home but are either of them still in a position (mentally) to make sensible judgements on their own care? I agree with pp upthread saying its rarely the best thing for dementia patients to be cared for by relatives full time, once the condition has advanced. Frontal lobe dementia is horrendous and near impossible to manage in a family setting.

You should be ashamed - they are your parents!!!!! Have some compassion and empathy and consider teaching your children this too by modelling the right way to treat your own flesh and blood.

Just piss off and take your own advice.

From someone who’s been down that road already - the idea that SS have the resources to cover DPs care needs or get them assessed quickly - is very far from the reality

Whatever care package they manage to put together it will be woefully inadequate for frontal lobe dementia + mobility issues.

It was insufficient for my aunt who had mixed dementia plus mobility issues, who was relatively quiet.

The context is this: council budgets for social care have been cut by 40% since 2010. A&E admissions for dementia patients with falls and infections have risen 70% since then due to inadequate care. Once in hospital patients can get stuck there for months.

Anyone with assets over £23,350 has to pay the full cost of their own care - but if they’re being cared for at home that doesn’t include the value of their house. They can get help from the NHS for funding if they have ‘complex health and care needs’ ie not just dementia alone and/or they need nursing care.

With assets over that you’d be looking at reputable private agencies to provide care packages - x hours a day. If they own their own home, in the long term you’d be looking at selling their house to provide funding for care home fees.

With assets under that - you will be reliant on state care, but it will be nowhere near the level of their actual needs.

I tried to keep my aunt in her own home as long as it was feasible. But it was very stressful for everyone involved including her - and she had amazing private carers who were super reliable. She didn’t want to go into a home, but actually, once the time came - she’s very happy there. We should have moved her a lot earlier.

I’m sorry OP, this is a difficult situation for you.

I think you need to put your children first and try not to feel guilty about it. Some sort of compromise can be found even if you have a peaceful Christmas Day and have them for a few days afterwards. Do you think your DM sees this as her getting a bit of a break?

You mention a brother, what is his situation? Do you usually take it in turns or do DPs always come to you?

From (too) long experience of dementia in 2 relatives, removing them from familiar surroundings and routine can be very unhelpful.

When we were relatively new to it all, we took my FiL out of his care home for 2 nights over Christmas. It was against the staff's advice, but we naively thought that since he'd always enjoyed Christmas at our house, he would still enjoy it.

It was a bad mistake. He was fretful and anxious for much of the time, and for the first time started asking where MiL (dead 10 years) was.

When it came to my mother, some years later, we didn't make the same mistake. We would go to her, or visit on Chr. Eve. TBH even before she was bad enough to need a care home, she wasn't aware that it was Christmas. Even with a tree and crackers on the table etc. she was asking why we were giving her presents, and could barely be bothered to open them. She honestly couldn't be bothered with any of it - just wanted her own routine and P and Q.

OP I’m with you, I would not consider having them to visit. I’d go to visit them, explain as gently as possible that it’s not a good idea because they will be uncomfortable and it may make their conditions worse and you don’t want your children to remember them like that. Tell them you want to help them and will arrange carers if that’s what they want but staying with you for 9 days is in no-ones best interests.

Don’t feel bad, you and your children deserve to enjoy Christmas just as much as your parents do.

You have posted about them last year haven’t you.
Dear God you can’t have them at your house for any time.
If you did not have children it would be a different matter.
It will be too late once he has sexually assaulted one of your children or their friends.

I would just tell them to help them you will visit them over the Christmas and pose it as being helpful and so as not to bother then coming to you etc.

YANBU. I hoep you find a solution. sounds like Christmas is the catalyst for some big changes that are much needed.

Nine days is too long fro anyone to stay. Nobody will come out of that well. I have no solutions only sympathy and I can't believe the people on here saying otherwise!

I am 45 and if I ever get to that stage I don't want my children to ahve to do that!

Doesn’t matter what the others on here say about you being out of order not having them over.
Will they be there to pick up the pieces physically and mentally of what you are choosing to put your children through,will they fuck.
Mental issues are one thing and bad enough,alcoholic on top and refusing help from Social Services.Your parents have made their choices,you have to put your children first

I originally voted YABU based on your original post but 9 days and an alcoholic to boot I changed my vote! Either 3 nights top or go and visit them for a few days and stay somewhere locally.

YANBU
I’m in the same position as you. I understand.
Ignore the responses from posters who have never experienced this situation.
Best wishes

How on earth do they cope day to day?

Really if they need care & are refusing t then they aren't making appropriate decisions & shouldn't just be left to fend for themselves, should they?

When my parent was struggling with the stairs, we were told that a bed & commode in the dining room would be OK & that they could use the kitchen for strip washes.

That's deemed acceptable for someone 80+

Never mind how they were going to wash themselves whilst holding a stick with one hand so that they didn't fall over.

I hope you get something sorted for them Op.

It's a cruel disease & as my parent's carers say-worse for the family.

It's hard being told to "fuck off" by your parent even though you know they don't mean it & it's because they don't know you at that point.

And it's the first time you have ever heard them swear!

I read the thread in full, thank-you. I also have direct experience of dementia in my family as well as severe ASD, so understand the strain these conditions can cause. I still stand by my comment - these are the OP’s parents and deserve love and compassion. Children also need to learn by example and not to abandon their own grandparents at Christmas-time.

Dontdisturbmenow - I couldn’t agree more.

This really has nothing to do with Christmas- it doesn’t matter if they are with you on that particular day or not, it’s about getting their care needs sorted out. I hope you get somewhere with SS. I really feel for you, what a difficult situation.

Elsewhere on MN, someone will soon be complaining about a healthy MIL inviting herself for a week over Christmas and posters will be falling themselves to say “hell no”, “boundaries” blah blah blah. I know who lacks compassion on this thread and it’s not the OP.

That wasn’t directed at you hopeful just a cross post

I haven’t read all the reply’s.
I’m a carer and I deal with all types of dementia, I can also handle all types of dementia however frontal lobe is the one that makes me uneasy.
Having had one man back me in a corner and rub himself on me whilst I had no where to go was very frightening. He was in the zone and wouldn’t listen to instructions to get off me.
It would not be cruel to not have them over for that amount of time, I would visit them Xmas eve for a few hours and say sorry house is full.
I really hope social services assess him very quick and get him the care he needs, although I fear this time of year to get him suitable help will be difficult.
You are safeguarding your children, the more advanced this dementia gets the worse the behaviour. I really hope things pan out for your parents.

Sorry, wrong thread!! Ignore me. OP, sympathies.

I used to nurse, amongst others, dementia patients, from the sweet old ladies (or men) who were just forgetful, to those who were vicious and violent. I have been bitten, kicked, punched, groped, had faeces (as well as urine bags, cutlery and crockery etc) thrown at me, been begged for sex, verbally abused.....the list goes on! This was in a community hospital (none of us MH trained) not a specialist hospital. It was soul destroying as there really wasn’t anything that you could do for them, no matter how awful that made you feel. I coped, but only because I got to go home at the end of my shift!

Those who have the nerve to have to say to the OP to have compassion and empathy, clearly are either saints or have never had to deal with relatives with this diagnosis!

@MrsSpenserGregson- thank you for sharing your experience. You were very brave and I think your real life description of FLD did a lot more to paint a picture of FLD than my more clinical experience with it. (My experiences have been bloody terrifying enough, thanks!) I honestly think the OP would never forgive herself if anything were to happen to her kids if her father were to visit. You and I both know the likelihood is extremely high.

OP, you have had such an unreasonable bashing on here. Do what you need to do to make Christmas a good one in your home, and visit your parents instead - in any case, being away from familiar surroundings will only make your DF worse. Frontal lobe dementia is frightening, not to mention the physical violence it can unleash, and adding the disinhibiting effect of alcohol on top is just a recipe for disaster. You are being more than compassionate in taking everyone’sneeds into account.

It would be a definitely big fat NO for me.

I have a relation with dementia who is not (thank god) an aggressive drunk and I still couldn’t do 9 days, it’s too upsetting.

Massively reduce the time. And talk to your children about your worries, allow them to share their own fears about these relations.