To just not understand how Epstein had such a steady stream of girls to abuse?

[AbsentmindedWoman]

It's obviously horrifying, in the most authentic sense of the word. But I think it's really only now that I am realising the scale of how many kids he abused - he bragged about huge numbers - just how? And how brazen he was, people knew to varying degrees, so how did this all go on so long?

How are there SO MANY vulnerable kids out there, that this can happen? It is on a different scale to an opportunistic predator who manages to abuse a kid because their parents maybe don't know where they are but assume they're ok, would never suspect the abuser, think he's decent, or whatever.

Just how are there so many kids who literally don't have someone to notice if they have been taken away in a plane by a middle aged man?? Wtf. And of course Epstein was an extreme predator with a lot of money to carry out his crimes, but the fact it happened at all probably means there are many men who are modestly well off who can pay for access to underage girls to abuse, fairly easily.

I can't get my head around it. It is my understanding that the majority of child abuse is perpetrated by a family member or someone close to the child, and that things like Rotherham are rare, relatively. But all the Epstein stuff suggests that abusing kids is sort of an accepted open secret in certain circles with money, where they aren't automatically ostracised or shunned for it. Wtf

I am a survivor of child sexual abuse, and to liken that smiling happy party girl chasing money and glamour to something like molesting a 7 year old is vile. I am really trying to but I just cannot see vr as a victim

I am a survivor of child sexual abuse, and to liken that smiling happy party girl chasing money and glamour to something like molesting a 7 year old is vile. I am really trying to but I just cannot see vr as a victim

I am so, so sorry you went through this.

It's still not "ok" to manipulate, coerce and abuse teenage girls though. You may not see them as victims but they honestly are.

We can feel angry at the fact that some men target small children and also feel angry that some target teenage girls/ young women. They are two different situations, sure, both are incredibly damaging.

Because he was protected by friends like Prince Andrew.

I'm sorry you went through something so terrible, @Tvstar. It's appalling that you were abused, and so young as well.

However- all victims and survivors of abuse, including those who don't fit the mould that some people expect of those who have been abused, are worthy of empathy, understanding and should be listened to. The ideal, or perfect, victim myth is one that really needs dispelling.

Tvstar I'm so sorry for what happened to you

My comment was the phrase was similar to an excuse trying to be peddled out by the same class of person (men) who want to legitimise hurting kids. The age and situation may differ but the damage is still caused.

@Tvstar I can understand that they look quite different but having worked with women across the spectrum of abuse the impact of both are devastating.

The women abused as teenagers have the additional burden of knowing the people hold the view that it wasn’t as bad, they kept going back, they got well paid, they looked ok etc etc - all views expressed on this thread. It’s not a competition, their pain doesn’t lessen or negate your pain, their abuse doesn’t lessen yours nor does your abuse lessen theirs. It’s different sides of the same shitty coin.

I am a survivor of child sexual abuse, and to liken that smiling happy party girl chasing money and glamour to something like molesting a 7 year old is vile. I am really trying to but I just cannot see vr as a victim

So am I. So are a lot of us. It doesn't make anyone else less worthy of support, because abuse and exploitation can take a lot of forms. That girl is taking down powerful men who abused and exploited a lot of very young, very vulnerable teenagers, and that takes courage precisely because she faces abusive commentary on how she was asking for it, on top. She had a safe, anonymous life in Australia. She stepped up, at real risk and knowing she'd be publicly shamed, to try to stop Epstein and his pals. She's a fucking heroine as far as I am concerned.

What an eye opener this thread is.

Thanks Bluerussian I'll look out for that episode.

She's a fucking heroine as far as I am concerned. Seconded. And fwiw I'm sorry to have sounded rather dismissive of naivety at first op, because you are right and it is disgusting that powerful men get away with so much.

I'm sure it's been mentioned, many girls were local to each house and v poor,they seem to be used for the massage abuse. Another layer of girls were lured to be models... Their parents probably didn't think anything of it.

Many from poor countries etc.

Look at any large abuse ring including Rotherham

I heard a film trailer on the radio this morning (Ed Norton, Willem Defoe in it, sorry can't remember name) and Alec Baldwin's character says at one point "power is knowing you can do what ever you want". Made me think of this thread.