To just not understand how Epstein had such a steady stream of girls to abuse?

[AbsentmindedWoman]

It's obviously horrifying, in the most authentic sense of the word. But I think it's really only now that I am realising the scale of how many kids he abused - he bragged about huge numbers - just how? And how brazen he was, people knew to varying degrees, so how did this all go on so long?

How are there SO MANY vulnerable kids out there, that this can happen? It is on a different scale to an opportunistic predator who manages to abuse a kid because their parents maybe don't know where they are but assume they're ok, would never suspect the abuser, think he's decent, or whatever.

Just how are there so many kids who literally don't have someone to notice if they have been taken away in a plane by a middle aged man?? Wtf. And of course Epstein was an extreme predator with a lot of money to carry out his crimes, but the fact it happened at all probably means there are many men who are modestly well off who can pay for access to underage girls to abuse, fairly easily.

I can't get my head around it. It is my understanding that the majority of child abuse is perpetrated by a family member or someone close to the child, and that things like Rotherham are rare, relatively. But all the Epstein stuff suggests that abusing kids is sort of an accepted open secret in certain circles with money, where they aren't automatically ostracised or shunned for it. Wtf

I think lots and lots of 17year old girls woukd put out with older men in return for that sort of money, lifestyle and celebrity company

That’s the very definition of sexual exploitation - sex in return for money, fame, celebrity, basically sex in exchange for. The law in the UK says a 17 year old can not consent to their own exploitation hence an offence has been committed. Applies as much to a 17 year old being given celebrity as it does to a 17 year old being given drugs.

Can’t decide whether @Tvstar’s last two posts should be deleted because they are so vile, or left up as an example of vileness.

I was going to say there are some horrible posts on this thread, but actually, there are some horrible people on this thread.

Crosspost, @BertrandRussell.

It's nauseating.

Tosh!

Don't delete, argue your case. It us only sexua exploitation if eostein had some power over them. What proven power did he have?

He went to schools to find/groom them

“ Don't delete, argue your case.”

No. You do a bit of reading then come back when you’ve done it. I don’t engage with victim blamers. Or, incidentally, people who talk about girls/women “putting out”.

That girl in the picture was the very picture of a happy healthy young woman having the time of her life

In the Prince & the Paedophile programme, that is the reason given by one of Epstein’s friends as to why he didn’t report him. He saw lots of young women on Little St James and thought it was strange but that they seemed happy.

It us only sexua exploitation if eostein had some power over them. What proven power did he have?

What proven power did the influential millionaire have over the teenage girls he was seducing.

Go and educate yourself about issues of power and control, loss and benefit as applies to abuse of women in relationships. Good to know though that you can’t be victimised if you look happy and healthy.

Tvstar you don't seem to grasp the fact that it is wrong for these men to be in any way encouraging teenage girls for their own gratification. whether offering goods or money or an exciting holiday or modelling contract. It is wrong.

@AbsentmindedWoman - the outpour of disgust came long after his death. His acts were known and tolerated during his lifetime.
There's a high tolerance towards misdeed to children and children are abused on every day basis.
Many children have parents who would do anything for money, even supply their young child to predators or ignore all the warning signs to keep the money flowing.
World is not the nice and cosy place we believe it to be for many children.

Well this thread shows a lot of ignorance as to what coercion and exploitation are. Educating themselves is obviously that hard for some posters that they're more than happy to victim blame. Fucking bonkers.

I'm less surprised by Epstein - there was serious money, power and connections and glamour to dangle in a big country with huge wealth disparity in counrty with little to no safety net for poor and idea anyone can have the American dream if they make most of opportunities and work hard.

I find the Rochdale and like scandles in UK much more shocking - many of the children weren't in care and had families trying to fight for them and some professionals as well and yet the abuse went on for years and is estimated to have involved realy high numbers.

Wow. Some of the comments on this thread No wonder so few women come forward when these things happen.

The thing is, this happens at all levels of society. And mostly, the girls get told to shut up.

I grew up in a naice MC family. My family doctor did intimate examinations on me and my sister when we were 11 and 10 respectively. He sent my mum out of the room and just did that. He told my sister she was 'sexy' whilst he had his hand down her pants.

Here, right now, in 2019, on this site, there are several threads running where women viciously decry other women who report feeling uncomfortable or even fear abuse by male HCP when they are vulnerable. There's one on MWs and one on gynaes. Both threads are full of women queuing up to say that women and girls who feel uncomfortable should 'suck up' their feelings of violation or shame because those men are 'professionals' and well-intentioned.

Now, you extrapolate the kind of sick message contained there. You make the girls vulnerable, the men rich, 'helping them with their careers', 'mentoring them', 'giving them opportunities' (etc etc).

It is very convenient to us to line up and parade our outrage at Epstein & co.

The reality is, this is a hugely widespread societal problem with many different manifestations, from Rotherham, to girls being told they should share tents with male children on Girl Guides and beyond. All of it, all of it, is about girls being told this is what they're for, this is what they're worth, they should shut up, be nice, be grateful. It's all connected.

Money.

*They seemed happy
*
This reminds me of certain people men in society who would like us to accept their sexual activities with minors in cases where is isn't seeming to cause the minor distress

@JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff I couldn’t agree more with every word you’ve said. I’m tired of society telling women to put up and shut up, to accept the unacceptable and then blaming women for daring to speak up.

I was 23 when my son was born. In the bed next to mine (40+ years ago now) was a young girl of 16. She introduced me to her husband at visiting time. The Golf pro from Daddy's club who'd been teaching her for a couple of years. He was about the age then, that I am now. I didn't know then what I know now about coercion and control but I found it very disturbing, she was just out of the schoolroom. Predators everywhere. It's very depressing. Poor child should have been running away, screaming.

Someone already mentioned it but it's the Law and Order episode, Season 21, episode 9 - Can't Be Held Accountable that is worth the watch if you want to see how men like this get girls and get around justice.

The one I mentioned earlier was Law & Order; Special Victims Unit S12 E15 and is called 'Flight' - www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/07/law-and-order-epstein-episode

I'll keep my eyes open for the Law & Order 'Can't be Held Accountable' one which is more recent.

The ignorant and frankly fucking disturbing attitude of some of the victim-blamers on this thread disgusts me.

I was abused when I was 14 by a 37 year old man from my church for a over year. I believed that it was a relationship- he'd been working on me for some time before and after the grooming I was transfixed and would do anything he said. It's not about 'teaching our young people to say no ' and if you really believe it's as easy as that to stop exploitation then you need educate yourself, pronto, for the sake of any minors you have in your lives because your attitudes are dangerous. I thought he had so much 'dirt' on me and because he paid for my phone, I could never leave him.

Many adults knew there was something wrong and no-one helped me/reported it to the police/told my parents. Teachers, pastoral care at school, deputy headteacher and most of the adults at my church. I've heard them all- you led him on, temptress, liar, whore, you're destroying a good man's reputation etc. Someone even told me if I went to the police I'd go into care and never see my family again, and that I could be prosecuted. They stood by and watched as I suffered emotional, spiritual and sexual abuse. Nearly 2 decades have passed and I'm still dealing with it. Always will be.

So, if you can, scrape up some empathy for the many people who have been subject to exploitation, trafficking and abuse. You are SUPREMELY privileged to not know what it's like.

Why it happens on big and small scales is because of attitudes like on these threads:
-it didn't happen
-if it did happen,it wasn't too bad or she knew what she was doing or she looked happy or she should've just said no.

All about the victim and why she holds some blame or responsibility. And the men that willingly and knowingly had sex with young women and girls? That's irrelevant ... what was she wearing again?

Oh and I forgot the cherry on the rape apology cake of something happened,but he didn't realise it was rape. Because in some people's minds rape is like Shroedinger's cat,all about perspective,or more accurately which side if the dick you're on.