Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To just not understand how Epstein had such a steady stream of girls to abuse?

162 replies

AbsentmindedWoman · 03/12/2019 17:56

It's obviously horrifying, in the most authentic sense of the word. But I think it's really only now that I am realising the scale of how many kids he abused - he bragged about huge numbers - just how? And how brazen he was, people knew to varying degrees, so how did this all go on so long?

How are there SO MANY vulnerable kids out there, that this can happen? It is on a different scale to an opportunistic predator who manages to abuse a kid because their parents maybe don't know where they are but assume they're ok, would never suspect the abuser, think he's decent, or whatever.

Just how are there so many kids who literally don't have someone to notice if they have been taken away in a plane by a middle aged man?? Wtf. And of course Epstein was an extreme predator with a lot of money to carry out his crimes, but the fact it happened at all probably means there are many men who are modestly well off who can pay for access to underage girls to abuse, fairly easily.

I can't get my head around it. It is my understanding that the majority of child abuse is perpetrated by a family member or someone close to the child, and that things like Rotherham are rare, relatively. But all the Epstein stuff suggests that abusing kids is sort of an accepted open secret in certain circles with money, where they aren't automatically ostracised or shunned for it. Wtf Sad

OP posts:
DaisyDreaming · 03/12/2019 23:55

I was really shocked when I saw the stats for how many kids go missing from foster care each day, they just vanish and no one is looking. Sure some have run away and are ok but god knows what’s happened to the rest

I think you only need to look at some of these peadophile rings that have been exposed to realise that the amount of abused people is impossible to get your head around

user1471439310 · 03/12/2019 23:56

I read online that they would get one girl and have her recruit others she knew. While it is horrible these girls knew what they were doing and wanted the money and gifts.

GeordieTerf · 04/12/2019 00:03

The victim blaming on this thread is horrible. I really hope those criticizing the victims are trolls. Sad

AbsentmindedWoman · 04/12/2019 00:07

@Squirrel134 you absolutely are victim blaming! It's really not a simple matter of saying no and 'taking responsibility' for yourself Hmm

OP posts:
Yesmate · 04/12/2019 00:11

@user1471439310 you are disgusting. Knew what they were doing. Have you heard of grooming. Fucking hell.

OlaEliza · 04/12/2019 00:21

probably means there are many men who are modestly well off who can pay for access to underage girls to abuse, fairly easily

What rock have you been living under? Confused

Squirrel134 · 04/12/2019 00:35

Then what is it then?
In the case of child trafficking I agree, the victims have no choice, and are unable to escape. But not all those involved in this case were trafficked!
Re. grooming, yet again I will say there are bad people in the world (no matter how nice they may seem when giving out stuff).

Our young people have to learn to say 'no, I'm not interested', and use their judgement to consider the other person's motives.

I know it can take time, but it is called being learning to be 'streetwise'.

CoastalWave · 04/12/2019 00:36

It's all about power.

I played a sport as a kid. This one coach held a lot of power. As a adult in my 20's I had a chance to train with him and it was apparent very soon that he was basically a dirty dangerous pervert. I had a very very close near miss in terms of being abused (i'm 100% certain that fate was on my side that day and prevented me being raped and god knows what else)

YET I still continued going to train with him afterwards. He's STILL powerful in the world of that sport and I"m certain one day, his exploits will come to light. My desire to be trained by the best out did my disgust and how frightened I was.

You could say why don't I go to the police? Because basically i have no evidence other than my word (and my then partners) vs his. IF it ever came out, then yes, I would then be another person who would come forward.

These people feed off knowing that they have something you want/need etc and it's all about power and being believed.

CSIblonde · 04/12/2019 00:37

Wealth. And historically & in the present, paedophile's have always networked extensively with each other to trade info, swap victims etc. The Internet has made that ever easier for them. Also, the naivety of others, which they exploit. The Dad on GMTV insisted on meeting Epstein first, but comes over as quite naive: I wouldn't think my teen "learning massage therapy" from/with a millionaire without a qualified physio framework & college was anything other than dodgy tbh.

AbsentmindedWoman · 04/12/2019 00:48

Being 'streetwise' does not prevent you from being raped or assaulted.

Do you honestly think if the young person says "No, I'm not interested" that's a surefire way to keep safe? Are you joking?

You seem to be totally unaware that sometimes in acutely dangerous situations, the most dangerous thing you can do is to say no or fight or struggle at all.

What about people who freeze when attacked? I did.

It sounds like what you are saying is that its perfectly fine for predators to hunt through teenagers until they find a 'weak' one, who they manage to exploit, and that you think the outcome is the underage person's responsibility because oh well, they weren't strong or wise enough to not get conned.

OP posts:
AbsentmindedWoman · 04/12/2019 00:50

My last post was in response to @Squirrel134.

OP posts:
AhNowTed · 04/12/2019 00:50

@Squirrel134

Have you read NOTHING about child abuse in Rotherham?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherhamchilddsexualexploitationnscandal

This case opened the floodgates for similar child abuse scandals across Britain.

Do you seriously believe it's a simple case of "just saying no"?

user1471439310 · 04/12/2019 00:58

If you read the article the girl who recruited others ask her friend "do you understand what they want of you." I feel bad these girls felt they needed the money or couldn't say no.

AhNowTed · 04/12/2019 01:00

@Squirrel134

So the thousands of kids in Ireland and the US should have just said "no" to their priest abusers? It's about being "streetwise" right?

For fuck sake, educate yourself about grooming, abuse, coercion, power and control.

LemonPrism · 04/12/2019 01:06

Wealth and power - what's hard?

AhNowTed · 04/12/2019 01:11

Next you'll be telling me that women in coercive abusive relationships should just pull themselves together.

Yeah it's their fault for being so weak.

For fuck sake. 😡

perfectstorm · 04/12/2019 01:36

Really sad when grown women know absolutely nothing about power imbalances. Our age of consent laws are based on them - and in the Epstein case, you had one of the richest men in the world, who knew the most powerful people in the world, and you had nowhere to run to.

The fatuous self-congratulation on not being as stupid as trafficked children, oh no... kind of ironic, given anyone posting such brainless gormlessness is in fact advertising their extreme stupidity for the world to see.

WatchingTheMoon · 04/12/2019 01:36

@ArabellaDoreenFig I used to be angry and disgusted at myself too but I'm learning to be angry and disgusted at society and the men who take advantage of young women instead.

I always thought we were gaining equality, that most men saw us as being the same as them or at least on an equal footing, that I wasn't the type who could be exploited...it's so sad when you realise how far that is from the truth.

It wasn't your fault. Flowers

notangelinajolie · 04/12/2019 01:38

Money. It's all about money.

RonaldMcDonald · 04/12/2019 01:44

He could provide things - money, fame, connections to those who needed that
Often girls who were already working for or trafficked by him recruited other girls

AhNowTed · 04/12/2019 01:53

@RonaldMcDonald

Your point being what exactly?

RonaldMcDonald · 04/12/2019 02:00

The question was how did he have such a steady stream
He had means and others recruited for him

Clearnightsky · 04/12/2019 02:21

I guess the one thing that I hold onto is that we are discovering the Epstein’s and Savilles.

It is horrifying.

However for my parents generation there were no prosecutions and it was endemic.

I really hope that we are starting to change as a society. To call it out. To be horrified openly and to talk openly. Sad

mathanxiety · 04/12/2019 02:29

www.thedailybeast.com/i-tried-to-warn-you-about-sleazy-billionaire-jeffrey-epstein-in-2003

Obv the author herself keenly felt the power imbalance despite her education and her great job.

mathanxiety · 04/12/2019 02:30

Sorry Blush - already posted.

The Daily Beast has a lot of articles on Epstein. Worth looking at.

Swipe left for the next trending thread