To just not understand how Epstein had such a steady stream of girls to abuse?

[AbsentmindedWoman]

It's obviously horrifying, in the most authentic sense of the word. But I think it's really only now that I am realising the scale of how many kids he abused - he bragged about huge numbers - just how? And how brazen he was, people knew to varying degrees, so how did this all go on so long?

How are there SO MANY vulnerable kids out there, that this can happen? It is on a different scale to an opportunistic predator who manages to abuse a kid because their parents maybe don't know where they are but assume they're ok, would never suspect the abuser, think he's decent, or whatever.

Just how are there so many kids who literally don't have someone to notice if they have been taken away in a plane by a middle aged man?? Wtf. And of course Epstein was an extreme predator with a lot of money to carry out his crimes, but the fact it happened at all probably means there are many men who are modestly well off who can pay for access to underage girls to abuse, fairly easily.

I can't get my head around it. It is my understanding that the majority of child abuse is perpetrated by a family member or someone close to the child, and that things like Rotherham are rare, relatively. But all the Epstein stuff suggests that abusing kids is sort of an accepted open secret in certain circles with money, where they aren't automatically ostracised or shunned for it. Wtf

You also don't realise how much adults fail to protect children, put achievements/money before "rumours" and then hope for the best or console themselves with some made up bullshit as to why it can't be their kid that is victimised.

I've seen and lived this on a much smaller scale and it's horrifying. Extrapolate that to the contacts,money and power JE had.

I just hope this is a one-off as far as Prince Andrew is concerned, and we won't get more girls emerging to tell stories of abuse by him.

I'm not saying she deserved it or should have expected to have sex however she said it happened four times over 2 years I think so why did she go back?? If she was trafficked?

I rather expect that Prince Andrew is telling the truth about having no recollection of this particular girl in the news currently. Probably there were many like her, although hopefully not all underage. Whether they're going to view it as abuse or not is another matter.

Men have had the idea that parties includes having girls for millennia. Sex is not the same for men as it is for girls and women.

Blackmail and/or threats are two obvious reasons.

@PanicAndRun ok

@louise5754 she said she tried to escape but couldn’t. There was another girl who was literally stuck on an island and couldn’t escape

What struck me was her statement that this wasn’t about sex, she was in a prison That involved control and people with money

@PanicAndRun I'd say it's way more likely that she just didn't have the self confidence and self worth to say no.

I did some fucking horrible things with men when I was young because I thought it was what I should be doing.

There are a lot of horrible people out there willing to take advantage of young women and girls whose parents don't care much about them or aren't in the picture.

You also don't realise how much adults fail to protect children, put achievements/money before "rumours" and then hope for the best or console themselves with some made up bullshit as to why it can't be their kid that is victimised.

Yeah I think this is the bit that has disturbed me, especially when thinking of the sheer numbers. It is adults failing children in the most fundamental way.

I mean there are plenty of families who are a bit dysfunctional in various ways, but who would move mountains to protect their kid from something like this - and then there's this disturbingly high number of parents who, well, don't protect their child, and somehow manage to rationalise why that's ok.

And then all the adults who saw with their own eyes, on multiple occasions as recently as this year, Epstein emerging from his plane with female children, and normalised it.

There is a book called Filthy Rich by James Patterson, who was his neighbours. The book explains quite a lot.

There was a piece about this in the New York Times based on a case study of two girls sisters who were groomed through the fact that one of them wanted a career as an artist.

He leveraged his connections in the art world to get her in contact with gallery owners etc and I think a job. The quid pro quo was her kid sister had to go and stay at his ranch with him and Ghislaine with predictable consequences.

It was pretty harrowing but also provided an insight into how men like this operate: if you're that rich and well-connected there's always something you can offer someone which they will want so much they won't ask too many questions until its too late.

I saw the news night interview with him but not the one with her.

About 10,000 (yes, you read that correctly) children went missing from European refugee camps in the period to 2016.

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37617234

Men who have power - or at least a significant number to cause significant damage - believe they're untouchable. Look at the UN peacekeepers in Haiti and some African countries too.

It's not about being a billionaire or a millionaire, it's about a certain type of man finding women and/or children he can be more powerful than.

Human trafficking is bigger business than drugs. Selling human bodies is bigger business than selling drugs. Think about it. Who are the most vulnerable? What sort of bodies can bring the best ROI (assuming any kind of "investment" even took place)? Vulnerable women and girls.

Well I'll give you my example,fairly boring and nothing anywhere as bad.

Uni teacher that offered maths tuition for exams with really good results. He also had a "thing" for young girls. He assaulted me in his own house ,with his wife and son at home. We weren't even alone,there were 4 other girls at the table with me. I couldn't believe it was happening! The nerve of him!

Turns out that people knew. Parents knew. They whispered or warned each other. These weren't poor ,deprived uneducated people. They were doctors, nurses,lawyers etc. Educated,professional people . They still sent their daughters to him. They paid him. My mother was warned.She sent me to him because he got good results and because I was fat so she didn't think I'd "catch his eye".

Now times my maths tutor by Epstein's power,influence ,"invincibility " (at the time at least) and money . That's how it happens.

If you read the details of the crimes Epstein was actually convicted for in Florida, he had the girls groomed into recruiting others from their friend circles and high schools too. I think they were more likely to not see the red flags if it was one of their peers introducing them to it. It was a very successful and finely tuned technique he had going on. It seems at some stage he graduated into providing girls for rich and powerful men. The mansion he had in New York was gifted to him by the founder of Victoria's secret, you can only imagine why. It's a huge network of these people and with all the alleged hidden cameras, it gave him a lot of leverage. I dont think he killed himself tbh and I'm sure the contents of those recordings and who is involved will never come out because shit like this is still going on.

It wasn't all homeless, vulnerable girls from the streets or girls picked up underage in clubs.

There's an article in, I think, the Daily Beast online, by a journalist who worked for Vanity Fair back in the early 2000s, telling the story of two sisters whose mother let them off with Epstein because he promised the sort of connections and mentoring experience that would get one girl's art into the public eye, and the other the sort of outstanding list of unusual extracurricular activities that creates a good application for an ivy league university.

The mother was comfortable with the 'mentoring' thanks to the reassurance Ghislaine Maxwell's presence offered.

The author went on in her article to detail how the bit about the women was ultimately cut from the article by her editor, and how creepy and even intimidating Epstein was toward her personally.

Can't link now as I'm on my phone but will find the article later. It's well worth a read, maybe a second or third reading.

this is the article mentioned above by @mathanxiety

Just think back to all the young boys Michael
Jackson abused (apparently, but of course the evidence is pretty damning). Parents dropped their kids off. They got money. They felt good. It's being in the presence of money and power.

When I was 17 I had an affair with a Labour MP for over a year. He was in his 50s. When I look back now I'm horribly disturbed by it. I didn't realise how vulnerable I was.

WatchingTheMoon

I'd say it's way more likely that she just didn't have the self confidence and self worth to say no

I did some fucking horrible things with men when I was young because I thought it was what I should be doing

Me too. I look back and I’m angry at myself for doing it, for not knowing better and for not saying no. I imagine there is millions of us.

I’m nearing 40 now and just beginning to understand what little worth women, particularly young women, are viewed as by certain sections of society.

Girls who are in care.
Girls who live in institutions (lots of them in Ukraine and other places).
Girls who are vulnerable because of poverty, abuse at home etc.

Girls are asking for it in many people's eyes. Girls who look like women, even if they are only 13, can be up for it and that's fine. It isn't child abuse or grooming if she says yes. There are loads of girls who are slags. People think like that. Once a girl has boobs she is fair game. Not a child any more. It needs a reset. Like when people thought that of course marital rape couldn't be a thing.

A friend of mine was sexually assaulted aged 15 by a man who was involved in an activity we did. Her parents pulled her out of the activity and warned other parents.

One of the parents told her own daughter, verbatim

"I don't believe a word of if. Man's Name is from a decent family and well respected in this community. She's lying."

This was a woman who had known my nice, shy, polite friend from she was a little girl. She had her over for parties, sleepovers. The parents all socialised together.

Yet the man's wealth and influence as one of the important families in the area somehow equalled innocence,to many people.

No police were contacted. My parents pulled me out of the activity too. All the other parents continued sending their children.

And needless to stay, it has stuck in my mind since. I realised then that some people are genuinely thick enough to believe that penis + money x respectable = beyond criticism.

I'm always suprised that people are suprised, when stuff like this comes out

@RogGestYeGerryMentlemen that's fucking appalling.

I have heard almost the same word for word about an elder at church who was accused of sexual abuse.

I was the only one (or so it felt) that didn't just turn away. People treated the kids (and yes more than one accuser) like shit and their families were outcast all because this elder was a 'good, upstanding man'

I'm getting high blood pressure thinking about it.

He had money, he had power and he had a known 'name'. Not sure what else you think he needed (many have needed far less).