AIBU to request no male midwife

[Hellofromtheotherside2020]

I know I'm probably being unreasonable, but I am due to give birth soon and at the hospital where I'm planning on giving birth, there are a few male midwives employed.

I think it's great that there are male midwives. It really must take a special kind of man to want to do that job and I expect they're very professional and amazing in their roles.

I know many women who've said that having a male midwife was better than a female etc etc as they were more sympathetic.

But for some reason, which I can't explain as I don't know why, I just feel so uncomfortable at the thought of having a male deliver my baby. It's not a sexual thing. I don't think a man will look at my vagina and get turned on or anything like that. I know they see plenty every day. I would feel uncomfortable, vulnerable, exposed and embarrassed if there was a man present (other than DH).

I know people will say "when you're in labour you won't care who's in the room", but I will care. I've given birth three times before and I did care then. I enjoyed my previous births and I was comfortable being surrounded by lovely women caregivers. I felt very feminine and powerful. I didn't care if the female caregiver had given birth herself or not, so it's not even a case of feeling the male midwife wouldn't have empathy or anything like that, which is what my friend suggested.

Am I the only person who feels like this?
How can I articulate my request to the hospital in my birth plan without sounding like a sexist pig? I feel so bad feeling his way as I know they're great at their jobs. I just know for sure I'd be so uncomfortable in my primal self giving birth and likely pooping myself in front of another man.

I'm the same with GPs and even dentists too, I just feel more comfortable under the care of another woman. What's wrong with me? Come to think of it, any make who is in a position of power/authority to me (eg senior colleagues) I always feel so vulnerable and inferior. Why?!!!! Help!

royalmail I would see a male dentist. I have before. I was abused frequently (every 3 months) by a male dentist as a child over a three year period, so I stated that if the option was there, I would prefer to see a female dentist.

I'm in Australia so have to pay for dental regardless. But I've seen a male dentist as an adult who was fantastic, despite it triggering what had happened previously.

I also agree that saying a male should never consider becoming a midwife is wrong. Some women do not care about the sex of their midwife and some men go into the profession because they're passionate about bringing new life into the world and helping women. Or for other reasons, which they don't even have to explain. I bet they are absolutely fabulous at their jobs.

I can in a way see that posters point of view though, not that I personally agree with it. But I get her argument. Anyone can become anything they want to be. Just like anyone having an intimate (or even non intimate) medical procedure can choose what they feel comfortable with.

It’s appalling to try and say men should be banned from becoming midwives. Pure and simple. Hard to believe it’s not someone just fishing for an argument though.

Maybe we should ban men from training to be gynaecologists as well, or oncologists,!or GPs, or hospital doctors, given that at some point they’re likely to be treating women and examining their genitals or breasts? Ridiculous.

Talk guidelines prevent me from engaging fully with your point in the way I'd like to, Sagradafamiliar, but rest assured that what you're not the only person seeing what you're seeing.

I wouldn't ever want to ban anyone from going into any profession, but it does seem an odd choice to me to go into a profession where you know going in that a significant percentage of your potential customers do not want to receive services from you and will in fact refuse them if given the option to do so. If I went into medicine I wouldn't choose any of the specialties where men frequently request a same sex practitioner for the same reason, wouldn't want to make them feel uncomfortable or put them it a situation where they had to actively refuse my services in case that added to their discomfort in any way.

Kittens - I feel like you're my brain. Everything I ever want to say, you've already said! (this is a pointless contribution to the post, just wanted you to know! )

Haven't RTFT but after a long and traumatic labour with 4 shift changes giving me 3 female midwives who couldn't seemingly have cared less, and a last female midwife who was supportive but couldn't really do much to help - it was a male doctor who actually listened to me, allowed me make a decision and feel more empowered, before ultimately delivering my DD via ventouse and stitching me up nicely. I'd take him any day over the female staff - there absolutely no sense of support or female solidarity.

I hope I see you around again after this thread, Hello! I've been venturing into AIBU more often lately but am usually more on FWR. There's been a lot of good mutual solidarity on this thread despite attempts to undermine it.

AIBU - I only discovered recently and I'm obsessed! It's my guilty pleasure
You take care lovely and hope to 'see you around'!

Anyone who wishes to request single sex care should be absolutely able to in my opinion. I've no desire to force people into intimate care they aren't happy with, but I don't see how that goes hand in hand with the unreasonable suggestion here that (essentially) go "I wouldn't want opposite sex care therefore nobody should and I think we should stop 50% of the population going into jobs that I personally wouldn't like them"

Very well put. It's all about choice - that of the patient and of the person wanting to make a career of what interests them and seems to fit their own particular skill set.

Women who don't want male midwives should have the absolute right to not have one for any reason; and I personally can't see why you'd want to enter a profession knowing that many of your potential patients won't want you (although clearly many won't have any objection). Then again, a minority of women may have their own equally valid reasons for actually requesting a male midwife (such as survivors of abuse at the hands of female abusers).

However, I really don't understand the gross assumptions that some women make about men and always assume the worst about their motives - in all aspects of life. If men ignore or disregard women's issues and concerns, they're selfish, uncaring, arrogant, misogynistic oafs; if they do take any interest in women's issues and want to be there to offer help and understanding if required, they're dirty perverts.

Midwifery could interest men for many reasons. Maybe they really like babies and the thrill of helping new life safely into the world; maybe their mother was a midwife and told them about all the joy it brought her; maybe their wife had a traumatic birth with an uncaring midwife (male or female) and they want to 'be the change they'd like to see'.

Maybe they just evaluate their own particular professional medical skills and conclude that it's the best fit for them. I seriously doubt that surgeons who specialise in liver or kidney operations do it because they're utterly obsessed by (or maybe even get off on) getting to see and touch those organs.

As for the idea that they're all perverts who just want to look at and feel women's genitals, for all you know, they might be gay and completely uninterested except from a medical and patient-care POV. Using that argument, you could suggest that a female midwife could be a lesbian and be massively turned on by seeing and touching your genitals (highly unlikely). We wouldn't dream of assuming that all paediatricians are perverts, just desperately hoping they'll get to see their patients in a state of undress. The reality is that, in the vast, vast majority of cases, they're just medical professionals seeing yet another patient's particular body part and seeking to give the patient the best treatment they can.

It’s perfectly natural to not want males around, just look to nature, do any mammals give birth around males?! I know humans like to think of themselves as different to animals, but basic instincts are still there.

It’s perfectly natural to not want males around, just look to nature, do any mammals give birth around males?!
It's perfectly fine to not want men doing personal intimate care.
What's not ok is people deciding that because they don't want it that it is weird or odd or putting men first or harmful to women or they shouldn't be doing the job.

The right to choose / refuse opposite or same sex care is totally different to removing the choice from other people

Yes, when its comes to birthing, instincts are key, and allowing instinctual behaviour benefits outcomes for mother and baby.

Why would anyone risk that, for the sake of a man wanting a job?

Anyone whos trained has this research taught them, why is midwifery allowing this?

Its also obvious that any males in mw will see females who don't want them.

Its so obvious that will happen even if there were only one male in mw, who when other female mw were not available would step in where unwanted and remove a womans choice.

Why are pp repeating points akready made and addressed. It's rather tedious lazy posting.

Yes, when its comes to birthing, instincts are key, and allowing instinctual behaviour benefits outcomes for mother and baby.

How many labours actually allow women to follow instincts? Being tied into a bed with continuous monitoring, on a syntocin drip, having forceps or ventouse or a c section aren't instinctive behaviours. Are you arguing for those to be stopped too?

How many female mw encourage women to follow their instincts? Certainly none that I encountered.

All the renown birth theorists...thats who you need to look into.

Just because some procedures are done, even routinei, doesn't make them the best for women or babies.

Are you trying to say that women shouldn't be supported in the most instinctive birth they can have?

I just don't understand your argument against that at all.

Do tou know the theory, and that much has changed as a result of instinctive behaviour that protects mother and baby.

We're no longer in the days of our forebears who had their babies taken away for four hourly visits, promoting bottle is best etc.

Have a look into it.

You come across as angry about it. What would it mean to you if women, the actually birthing women always got the choice?

Not all women by any means choose to lie on a hospital bed, which is against progressing birth.

More are trying to have babies without medical intery. Some believe CS is tue way to go.

However, this thread isn't about any of that is it.

I actually do think that women should be supported to have the kind of birth that they want and I wanted midwives who wanted to support me to do that. I didn't get that, at all, in either of my births so I think it is too simplistic to say remove male midwives so that women can have better births.

How about remove all of the female midwives who prevent women from having a good birth first. Once that's done, and every midwife whether male or female is centering the woman then look further into it? Why start with removing male midwives who are a tiny proportion of all midwives first?

Sorry,you asked,so,yabu.the men are trained midwives,how horrible to be rejected because of their sex.

I think you're fighting for male mw. I have no idea why. Its based in research that its instinctually contraindicated.

Yet you fight on, for men, above all else. Certainly above improved outcomes for women and babies.

Its very odd why you are fighting for men on a thread about women wanting to not be exposed to men during labour

You seem to be avoiding and ignoring the issues for women. Do you not care about the effect on women because it really does come across like this. That men are more important than women.

Yet you fight on, for men, above all else.
Posters who believe that:
1.People should have the right to request same sex care
And
2.This personal right to choose does not equal ruling 50% of the human population from jobs based on personal preference

Are not fighting for men above all else.

They are saying that people have the right to choose their careers and the right to choose their intimate care providers, and crucially that their personal opinions and preferences don't come into the care decisions of other women.

In other words, I have zero right to insist that another women has intimate care from a male HCP and she has zero right to tell me that my lack of preference and willingness to be treated by men and women in different circumstances is "fighting for men" because she personally wouldn't choose it.

Just because person A wouldn't choose something, doesn't mean person B should lose that choice.

Why do some people continually me-rail? Do they think people can't see through it? Someone else's consent is not yours to give away!

Sorry,you asked,so,yabu.the men are trained midwives,how horrible to be rejected because of their sex.

My body, my choice. It's an issue of personal privacy and dignity during an intimate procedure, and based on consent, something you clearly don't grasp with your boo hoo what about the men's feelings.

TruthOnTrial

Actually I think it's you that are avoiding and ignoring the issues that affect women - that of poor care during pregnancy and childbirth because you are elevating banning male midwives above good care given by well trained, empathic midwives.

I'm arguing for excellent midwifery care provided by practitioners who put the woman first and foremost, who advocate for her and who support her. You seem to be saying that none of that is as important as only having female midwives so they can be the crappy, bullying harridans that I encountered, but it doesn't matter because they're woman.

So it seems to me that pregnant women aren't your priority at all, rather the promotion of your agenda to simply remove men from midwifery.

In other words, I have zero right to insist that another women has intimate care from a male HCP

It is not the same thing as not being bothered either way or having a preference for one or another sex because you think they make better HCPs.

If you are female and don't want a male HCP in intimate circumstances it is about privacy and dignity. Yes we should all have a choice. Sometimes we all might not be able to, But privacy and dignity are basic and very common reasons for women to object to male HCPs. (And men to female HCPs, obviously)

You have the right to choose same sex hcps if that's what you want.

I have the right to choose opposite sex hcps or to not care either way.

Why do you think you have the right to deny me my choice?

You missed the part where I said "Yes we should all have a choice.". Please try to read posts properly.

And in fact, missed the entire point.