VG/Prince Andrew - to say I wasn’t sure before but I believe her

[churchandstate]

I posted in a thread after the Prince Andrew interview, and although I didn’t believe him about everything he said, I wasn’t wholly convinced at that time that he was lying about sleeping with young girls, about seeing things in Epstein’s houses that should have repelled him, about having sex with Virginia Roberts in particular. I just didn’t think there was certainty to be had.

I am convinced now. I believed every word she was allowed to say last night and I am only sad they didn’t give her more air time. Prince Andrew has very serious questions to answer.

These are two separate points. It’s not ok to ‘other’ British born Pakistani people as non-Western.

What if they 'other' themselves ? Would you say

That is racist.

?

I suspect it would be a hard case to prove, as the offender would claim he hadn't known about it blah blah

Not knowing is not relevant, it’s still a offence. Or it is now.

That doesn’t make it ok to other all Pakistani / Muslims.

*an offence

Indeed they could charge PA in the US, but somehow I doubt it.

I agree with Minerva. Look at all the abusing nuns and priests. Jesus would indeed have wept.

I believe Virginia.

"People being frightened of appearing racist was what allowed these horrible gangs to flourish in the first place."

Exactly, as Sarah Champion and Sajid Javid found out to their cost when they spoke out about it.
I suppose Sajid Javid - a British Muslim of Pakistani parents is a racist for focussing on their ethnic status?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46684638

MinervaSaidThat

That doesn’t make it ok to other all Pakistani / Muslims

There was a huge cultural aspect to the abuse in Rotherham. They were British, but their Pakistani / Asian culture had an impact, both on the abusers behaviour and the behaviour of the police and Social Services in those cases. We would be doing the victims a disservice to say 'the abusers were British. The end.'

There's a huge cultural aspect to everything though. Magdalene Laundries? Come on.

All 'religions' are a bit dodge.

And, I believe her. I'm sick of seeing the victim blaming.

Serendipity true, I'd agree with that terminology but I was alluding to another poster who spoke specifically about paedophiles (in the western world).

@bigjambun Nobody is denying that the Catholic infrastructure and Magdalene Laundries were part of widespread and secretive abuse against women though?

Minerva objected to a post calling the gangs of abusers in Rotherham 'Pakistani / Asian', and saying that was 'othering' British Asians (so insinuating British Asians aren't really British and don't belong here). I was pointing out that, though the abusers are British, other cultural factors were at play and we shouldn't erase the 'Pakistani / Asian' part out of fear of being accused of racism. Just as we wouldn't erase the Catholic part when talking about paedophile priests or Magdalene laundries.

My impression was you were saying something slightly more sinister.

PippiDeLena

Great posts!
In case anyone should label me "racist" again, my DW is Asian and a Muslim, but doesn't want those evil animals labelled "Asian", because that is a lazy, catch all word, which covers many countries and different religions.
After Sarah Champion's comments, which resulted in the Labour MP being removed from the Shadow Cabinet, Naz Shah, MP for Bradford West liked and retweeted this comment about the Rotherham victims:

"Those abused girls in Rotherham and elsewhere just need to shut their mouths. For the good of diversity.”

www.rotherhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/view,mp-naz-shah-should-resign-after-sharing-tweet-telling-sex-abuse-victims-to-keep-their-mouths-shut_23593.htm

Minerva objected to a post calling the gangs of abusers in Rotherham 'Pakistani / Asian'

No, that’s not what I said.

Someone said the UK grooming gangs ‘were not of Western culture, they were/are Pakistani Muslim’.

You can refer to them as British Pakistani. To say people who were born and Bred here are ‘non-Western’ is racist.

And why has a thread on PA become about Pakistanis? Seems like whataboutery. Also interesting that no one is challenging the poster who said that misogyny only exists in primitive societies.

I believe her 100%. The royals are all shady characters anyway (mostly). I don't know why anyone's surprised really.

The many grooming gangs were not of western culture,
quick look
huge sigh.

Would people also refer to Mo Farah, Amir Khan, Nadiya Hussain, Zayn Malik etc as ‘non-Western’?

@andyoldlabour

Naz Shah, MP for Bradford West liked and retweeted this comment about the Rotherham victims:

"Those abused girls in Rotherham and elsewhere just need to shut their mouths. For the good of diversity.”

A quick Google shows that that tweet was from a parody account of newspaper columnist Owen Jones.

Or are you pretending you didn’t know that?

"Would people also refer to Mo Farah, Amir Khan, Nadiya Hussain, Zayn Malik etc as ‘non-Western’?"

They have fully integrated into our society, the mainly Pakistani grooming gangs had not, and in fact referred to their victims as "Kuffars", thus indicating that they felt, non Muslim, white girls were "unbelievers" and therefore "fair game".
Those barbaric attitudes have nothing to do with Western culture.

So @andyoldlabour does that mean Prince Andrew hadn’t fully integrated into our society?

What's 'our society' about it? Barbaric attitudes should have nothing to do with any culture, surely?

They have fully integrated into our society, the mainly Pakistani grooming gangs had not, and in fact referred to their victims as "Kuffars", thus indicating that they felt, non Muslim, white girls were "unbelievers" and therefore "fair game".

Who are you quoting? They preyed on vulnerable young girls, they were far from religious.

It’s andy who said ‘our society’, I’m just quoting him. And his made up wife.