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Original poster

VG/Prince Andrew - to say I wasn’t sure before but I believe her

999 replies

churchandstate · 03/12/2019 07:05

I posted in a thread after the Prince Andrew interview, and although I didn’t believe him about everything he said, I wasn’t wholly convinced at that time that he was lying about sleeping with young girls, about seeing things in Epstein’s houses that should have repelled him, about having sex with Virginia Roberts in particular. I just didn’t think there was certainty to be had.

I am convinced now. I believed every word she was allowed to say last night and I am only sad they didn’t give her more air time. Prince Andrew has very serious questions to answer.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Pumperthepumper · 03/12/2019 18:04

I know the answer, by the way - it’s because you’re a misogynist.

Sagradafamiliar · 03/12/2019 18:05

Banoffee but we're not in a court of law.

The person who would've been prosecuted is dead.

Decent people wouldn't question a victim's motives because they received payment for articles/interviews like anyone else does. They would think 'there isn't enough money in the world to take away her pain but I hope she puts that money to good use and better her life with it'.

TheMidasTouch · 03/12/2019 18:10

"You have no idea how you would have reacted."
I know what I was like at 16 and that is who I am talking about. I would not have taken off my clothes for anyone and I'd have fought off anyone who tried inserting a vibrator into my vagina.

"Unless you were abused from 7, as she tells us she was, and unless you were in that exact circumstance you do not know what you'd have done"
Yes, that's true. I could understand though if she'd been groomed for a time before being introduced to the massaging but she hadn't.

Pumperthepumper · 03/12/2019 18:12

Come on then @TheMidasTouch - why didn’t she?

PippiDeLena · 03/12/2019 18:18

TheMidasTouch

I know what I was like at 16 and that is who I am talking about. I would not have taken off my clothes for anyone and I'd have fought off anyone who tried inserting a vibrator into my vagina.

Anybody else being reminded of Donald Trump talking about a school shooting and saying if he were there he'd have run into the school, completely unarmed, to tackle the shooter? Hmm

VG is not you. She had been the victim of abuse from being a small child. Her boundaries were completely off. She didn't have a loving family who would have supported her. I don't know why you are finding it so hard to understand that some people have had abusive childhoods and it affects their lives and decision making abilities afterwards.

theWarOnPeace · 03/12/2019 18:21

Midas - it’s called coercion.

It hasn’t happened to you because you have/had the skills to protect yourself, or have been protected. People who have been abused and neglected since age 7 are not usually in a position to protect their bodies, even at 16-17. Imagine what she went through to get to that point.

I would say I had very little attention or interest as a child, lots of dysfunction. But if I’d told my narcissistic parents that I was going off on a jet to be a billionaire’s masseuse, I would have been on lockdown and my dad would have probably kneecapped him, if my mum didn’t get there first. Anyone who thinks this was a balanced and fair ‘relationship’ is bloody deluded.

Even if, I’m the interests of fairness, we are to believe that Ghislaine thought she was finding JE masseuses only. Why would she not get women or men with years and years of experience, to actually massage him properly. Why would there be no records of her being paid properly? Why are there flight records of VG going all over the world when they should have hired a masseuse on the books, and told VG she needed to be at school or home? Look at the flight records, she was with PA and GM and JE repeatedly in close quarters - and they insist they don’t even know her, barely in their radar, despite sharing houses and private jets!!

lyralalala · 03/12/2019 18:21

I know what I was like at 16 and that is who I am talking about. I would not have taken off my clothes for anyone and I'd have fought off anyone who tried inserting a vibrator into my vagina.

Before I got raped I'd have said the same. I'd have said I was the type to scream and shout and scratch and fight. Turns out I had no idea how I'd react

Just as you have no idea how you'd have reacted. You know how you, as an adult, would like to think you would have reacted. The reality is very different

Yes, that's true. I could understand though if she'd been groomed for a time before being introduced to the massaging but she hadn't.

You do realise don't you that abused children are often in much more danger because their perceptions of normal are already completely skewed and therefore could be an exceptionally easy target for someone with a well rehearsed routine?

She was handpicked by GM. We actually have no idea how long she could have been groomed for without realising it. There's very little chance the first day GM seen her was the day everything happened to her. In fact I'd say none at all

Predators choose their victims carefully

artisanparsnips · 03/12/2019 18:21

The other really weird thing that no one seems to have commented on, is that she said that, the first time, not only Epstein but Ghislaine Maxwell took off her clothes. There's a heck of a lot that has remained unsaid here...

Bluerussian · 03/12/2019 18:23

TheMidasTouch
I know what I was like at 16 and that is who I am talking about. I would not have taken off my clothes for anyone and I'd have fought off anyone who tried inserting a vibrator into my vagina.
......
Blimey, who did that? That's outrageous, quite horrific!

I agree with PippiDeiLena that when children have been subject to abuse from an early age, their boundaries are completely off. They really do not know what is appropriate and what isn't because their minds have been messed up.

TheMidasTouch · 03/12/2019 18:24

I would have just said 'no' even as a 16-year old.

"Why do you think she didn’t then? Why do you think she chose to go along with it?"
I don't know. She seemed to be very excited about having an actual profession but why would she want to start learning massage therapy once she'd been violated in that way and realised what was expected of her. Why would she want to continue?

Pumperthepumper · 03/12/2019 18:26

I don't know. She seemed to be very excited about having an actual profession but why would she want to start learning massage therapy once she'd been violated in that way and realised what was expected of her. Why would she want to continue?

Exactly! The penny is starting to drop, isn’t it? Why would she want to continue? Come on, this is your theory! Why do you think?

Bluerussian · 03/12/2019 18:27

A good point from artisanparsnips: both Epstein and Ghislane removed the girl's clothes. I wonder how she is going to explain that, I know she was mad about the man but that is really extreme behaviour from a woman - quite a mature woman too.

theWarOnPeace · 03/12/2019 18:28

only heard about VR in the last few days. I didn’t Epstein’s death etc or pay any attention to PA stuff. It’s entirely possible this witness has only started paying attention to the story and remembers that one time they were in the nightclub and saw PA. I know I would sure as hell remember seeing PA in a nightclub.

Hmmm, there’s more evidence to it than a random who once saw PA in a club saying “btw he raped me!”. There is evidence placing them together repeatedly, in the company of a known paedophile, and she was 17. Please don’t suggest she just jumped on some kind of bandwagon without looking at the case.

Pumperthepumper · 03/12/2019 18:28

I would have just said 'no' even as a 16-year old.

Again, why do you think she didn’t?

Remember: she’s 17, and you’re choosing to not have a pop at convicted child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein but instead question why his 17 year old victim didn’t fight harder.

BanoffeeTart · 03/12/2019 18:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lyralalala · 03/12/2019 18:33

I wonder how she is going to explain that, I know she was mad about the man but that is really extreme behaviour from a woman - quite a mature woman too.

I think she's holed up somewhere cutting a deal to name (or protect depending who they are) other big names so that she can avoid doing exactly that

Given the deal Epstein managed to cut I wouldn't be surprised if she gets something similarly as spectacular/ridiculous

TheMidasTouch · 03/12/2019 18:33

"I know what I was like at 16 and that is who I am talking about. I would not have taken off my clothes for anyone and I'd have fought off anyone who tried inserting a vibrator into my vagina."
......
"Blimey, who did that? That's outrageous, quite horrific!"
It certainly is. I'm not sure who did it but VRG said this in last night's Panorama interview. I've just been googling to find out but can't find anything. Does anyone else remember who VRG said did this to her?

lyralalala · 03/12/2019 18:38

It certainly is. I'm not sure who did it but VRG said this in last night's Panorama interview. I've just been googling to find out but can't find anything. Does anyone else remember who VRG said did this to her?

It was Sarah Ransome who said it. And it was Epstein who did it to her

Evilmorty · 03/12/2019 18:49

I know what I was like at 16 and that is who I am talking about.

Unless this very same thing happened to you at 16, you really don’t know what you’d do.

I was 16, a very forthright girl, I am from Tottenham, I’d fought off muggers at 14. A man attempted to grab me in an alley way and I froze. I cried and he ran off. Everyone I told was completely shocked because my actions were nothing like the girl they knew.

You don’t know how you’d react.

TheMidasTouch · 03/12/2019 18:52

Remember: she’s 17, and you’re choosing to not have a pop at convicted child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein but instead question why his 17 year old victim didn’t fight harder."
I am not choosing not to have a pop at JE. His behaviour was utterly abhorrent. Seeing him in the police interview room last night smiling and looking very smug was truly awful. You could tell he thought he was untouchable.

VRG wasnt a victim of JE or GM prior to that interview. She chose to go to the interview and her father checked out JE and GM. She had a support system in her father and already had a job she could return to. She only went for a blooming interview. She didn't have to stay. Her dad knew where she was.

What's to say whether, if she said 'no' when they tried to take her clothes off, she wouldn't have been able to just walk out of there before they did anything to her?

TheMidasTouch · 03/12/2019 18:54

@Pumperthepumper

"Come on then @TheMidasTouch - why didn’t she?"
10/10 for trying but I'm not rising to your goading. Grin

Evilmorty · 03/12/2019 18:57

50 other women tell a similar tale to VR about JE and his approach. Of those 50 women I am sure at least one will have said no. Does it change anything for any of them? They were still all raped.

You’re completely dismissing her naivety, her age, their power over her because of their age and societal position, she was in an interview situation with those two in a position of authority, she was still a child and probably unsure of how a masseuse behaves, how many professional massages do you think she’d done before at 17?

TheMidasTouch · 03/12/2019 19:00

@lyralalala

"It was Sarah Ransome who said it. And it was Epstein who did it to her"
I'm sorry. My mistake. I should have re-watched to check who said it. Dreadful whoever it happened to.

Pumperthepumper · 03/12/2019 19:04

10/10 for trying but I'm not rising to your goading.

What a surprise! You don’t have an answer! It’s almost as if your horrendous victim blaming is totally without merit, isn’t it? Let’s try this one:

Since you’re the expert on how to avoid sexual assault, what should Sarah Ransome have done differently?

Pumperthepumper · 03/12/2019 19:06

What's to say whether, if she said 'no' when they tried to take her clothes off, she wouldn't have been able to just walk out of there before they did anything to her?

And again, why didn’t she?

Are you trying to make out she wanted to do it? I can’t see your point otherwise.