AIBU to think that Mumsnet is becoming increasingly less feminist and that this..

[BertrandRussell]

..is a bad thing?

And I totally agree with your point about the Eve issue - I’ve always thought that for as long as U can remember. Yet, just because I’ve rejected Catholicism long ago because I see it as deeply misogynistic, it doesn’t give me the right to tell another woman who is Catholic that she can’t be identify as a feminist. I need to understand her interpretations before I’m in a position to pass judgement.

Yes, people shouldn't tell you that you haven't thought deeply enough. Women have the right to state facts and to point out the impact that other women's choices have on them, but absolutely not to make assumptions about why a choice was made. It's perfectly possible for a woman to know the full history of the custom and be familiar with all arguments and decide she still wishes to follow it anyway. If anything that's probably pretty common.

Re the name thing. For the record I don't care what other women do, and I know a lot of married women keep their name BUT there is often an assumption that means thar they will have a different name to their children. Why is that?
Every single woman I know who has had children, even the ones who are not married, gave their children the fathers name. I have a few friends with children who have different surnames to each other AND their mum, as there have been different fathers (not judging that, it's just life, but I would hate to not share a name with my dc).

Yes. If I hadn’t changed my name, I would definitely have insisted in the DC having my name. I’m the one giving birth to them fgs!
Also, my perspective is, I had a very strained relationship with my own father and I couldn’t wait to lose what I saw as the psychological “shackle” of that name because I felt it tied me to him and also his father who was a nightmare.

Would you have thought of changing it before you got married cosima, or did the idea just not occur?

I did consider it but I had no idea what to change it to, I suppose. It would have seemed a bit affected or arbitrary. Or I lacked the imagination! Obviously I wanted it to mean something and I was in love with DH so it meant something. I guess we could have chosen a totally new name together, but again, what?

One of the mysteries of life, that I shall die failing to understand, is why not ALL women are feminists in perspective.
I'm ok with "not all" Andahelterskelterroundmylittle, the stat that truly shocked me was the Fawcett Society stat that only 7% of people in Britain call themselves feminists.

Also, I’m not saying I was in permanent conflict with my dad or having his name bothered me on a daily basis. I’m just saying, when there was an opportunity to lose it, I had no attachment to the previous name as some women do. If anything, I was relieved to get rid if it.

I actually think that the name change tradition is one of the benefits of being a woman.

I suppose yes there's always the question of what to change it to!

I think the biggest number that’s been done on women in recent times is the one which has embedded the idea that all choices are feminist ones - with particular reference to porn, prostitution and other related areas.

“Choosy choice liberal feminism” has wound up with (often but not exclusively) young feminists defending the most damaging and abusive ideas and practices under the banner of choice.

There is a wilful misunderstanding of a more radical feminist viewpoint that inevitably ends up with yells of “SWERF”. The irony is that radical feminism does not exclude prostituted women, but rather attempts to shine a critical light on both the real abuse happening and the socioeconomic context within which any “choice” is made.

It perhaps doesn’t answer your question Betrand, but I think as a society we are rather losing our grip on what needs to happen in order to get the patriarch to do one.

Yes I do agree that as women have achieved greater equality in so many areas, it’s as if internet porn and its insidious message that women should be cool with it; own it; internalise it as liberating or whatever, has arisen to remind women of their place. It’s misogyny on a whole new level and very dangerous imo.

Yes- the idea that being anti prostitution means being anti prostitute is a very damaging one. I remember being told by a poster on here that my anti open stance meant that I was suppressing women’s right to sexual wxpressions

*expression

It’s misogyny on a whole new level and very dangerous.

I agree. The connection between porn and violence against women is undeniable and yet so many young people just see it as another form of entertainment.

The increasing use of the “rough sex gone wrong” defence is terrifying.

I don't believe that there is no pressure on women to change their name and am frequently baffled by the fact that everyone seems to do it without question. FWIW I changed my name when I was young 20 years ago. I didn't like my maiden name and it would have been utterly ridiculous double-barrelled for DC 😂. So I'm as bad really and part of it. I wouldn't have saddled DC with my name and want to have theirs anyway but it does slightly trouble me. DH didn't care either way, but he'd have quite reasonably argued against the double-barrel version I'm sure.

I'm actually particularly baffled as to why SIL changed her name from a nice surname

Teateaandmoretea
I'm the same. I disliked my surname, think when post comes in the wrong surname, you miss mail redirected post because some stupid company has typed it in incorrectly, always having to spell it out etc.

DH assumed I wouldn't be changing it because he knows my feelings on feminist issues and he didn't care either way. We looked at both having the hyphenated version but that sounded stupid.
I changed my name and it's so much easier.

BertrandRussell
Rough sex gone wrong / sex game gone wrong seems to be worryingly increasing.

The thing that puzzles me about this is my understanding from friends who are into kink/the BDSM community is that there's really strict rules and agreements between parties involved in that sort of play. Much as it's not to my taste, I've been surprisingly intrigued by their experiences and was suitably surprised by how much respect and consent seems to be a priority.

Whereas most of these "rough sex gone wrong" stories in th press seem to be random man used violence in sex because his orgasm had to be the top priority.

I think one of the problems is that some people want, for whatever reason, to minimise the impact of social conditioning. They like to think that everything they do is a completely free choice, made in a vacuum, untainted by societal pressures, family expectations, and other unseen influences. The trouble is, it’s not like that at all- well exemplified by loads of threads on here about babies’ last names, married names and so on. None of us live in a free choice bubble. We’re part of society.

For me, this is why challenging seemingly tiny examples “micro sexism” and stereotyping, particularly with children, is important. Any thread talking about nursery rhymes or toys or picture books is greeted with a chorus of “Haven’t you got anything more important to worry about?” and similar. But how we furnish our children’s brains is important. If they see the boy in the story as the astronaut and the girl at home looking after babies (extreme made up example) or the boy as the Innkeeper and the girl as the Innkeeper’s wife - then that is how they will perceive the world.

There is an excellent piece today by Julie Bindel in The Times on prostitution.

It's on the FWR board with a share token.

That's very true.
It's why Let Toys be Toys movements are really important.

One thing I've found when setting up for this baby is how the slogans on babygrows are increasingly gendered and stereotypical.
There's loads for boys about roaring like a lion, being loud, being a rascal, being a cheeky monkey, being a heart breaker. Then there's lots of dinosaurs and science and cars as well. The message being that little boys are loud, boisterous, a hurricane of disruption who will probably grow up to work in STEM and will like cars.

Meanwhile in the girls' sections the slogans are about being pretty, being kind, liking cuddles and kisses, being an angel, being cute or fashionable/stylish like mummy. Then there's lots of references to princesses and dancing. The message being girls need to be nice and look pretty.

People I've said this to have said it doesn't make a difference because it's just newborn clothing and they won't know the difference, but I have tried to point out that it does make a difference if the adults around the child hold those views.

I'm hoping people don't wait til baby's arrival and then jump on the pink/blue train.

I think there's plenty of feminists on this lol
I think some of them give women a bad name tbh

Meganc559 - do feel free to say more!

Julie Bindels article is excellent.