AIBU to think that Mumsnet is becoming increasingly less feminist and that this..

[BertrandRussell]

..is a bad thing?

[cheesyfeet123]

@PlanDeRaccordement

A feminist is someone who puts women front and centre and considers the impact what she says or does has on other women.

To me a feminist is someone who advocates for and believes in the equality of the sexes. I do not agree with putting women front and centre because that would mean female supremacy.

Do you believe the same about black lives matter? That it should be all lives matter because otherwise it’s black supremacy?

[eaglejulesk]

To me a feminist is someone who advocates for and believes in the equality of the sexes. I do not agree with putting women front and centre because that would mean female supremacy.

This.

[Ethelfleda]

Ah I wondered why I hadn’t seen her post for ages

[LimeLemonOrange]

Ooops hadn't realised it was an old thread was doing some searches and came across the thread that way.

[DeliciouslyFemale]

Why have you bumped a thread that was last posted on, nine months ago?

[Queenelsarules]

The difference between Liberation and Equality:

Equality is creating same opportunities for women as men n the current system

Liberation is accepting that our current society is built on systemic inequality and oppression and that true equality can only be achieved by the overthrow of that society.

[DimidDavilby]

I think Bertrand deregistered. A real shame.

Being a feminist isn't just about being nice to other women although i agree with you that mumsnet is particularly savage at the moment.

[LimeLemonOrange]

Hmmm big @ fail, obviously I meant @BertrandRussell

[yellowallpaper]

If a feminist is as your description, then I'm not one. I think about what I do and how it impacts on all people, not just women.

[HorseWithNoTimeForCis]

It's cos of the increase in Huns innit?

Can someone please tell what "huns* are?

Attila.

[HorseWithNoTimeForCis]

Conservatives have proposed a reform of the family courts re DV combining criminal and family courts into one. Not a peep.

Start a thread on it then.

What's holding you back?

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

Not to make this a TAAT, but this thread provides some evidence of the steadily decreasing feminist nature of MN.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3763845-Male-gym-employee-walked-into-female-changing-rooms-while-I-was-naked

Some of the replies are gobsmacking.

[Teateaandmoretea]

People often jump onto details or one-off situations in my experience. It also isn't just in relation to the men, many I agree sound like utter turds. There is also a tendency to berate women for any tiny relationship-based misdemeanour.

[BertrandRussell]

I honestly don’t think I have ever seen a LTB thread where the B wasn’t eminently L-able. Women put up with soooo much crap. And just think how much must have happened already to get to the point of even posting about it....

[Teateaandmoretea]

I’ve been shot down in flames when I’ve tried to be honest about some aspects of my relationship or the relatives on MN because people get livid so quickly and call “abuse”, “LTB” and other insults based on one scenario in the opening post.

Well tbh most people have scenarios where mnetters would trill LTB or accuse abuse because someone shouted once over the course of a year. There is often a 'we should be nice at all times' overtone to the judgement as girls are conditioned into. I wouldn't personally take any notice and just be careful what you post like we all are.

Cultural stuff is sometimes tricky with feminism but equally in some ways our culture of celebrity/ selfies/ fake boobs etc isn't exactly great for women either.

[HulksPurplePanties]

I'm really loving the conversation & I want to say I will come back to it and would love to have a legitimate, open conversation on gender rights/issues/segregated sex spaces, because I do think the FWR board shuts down any real duscussion, but it's the weekend for me, and I'm having wine with DH after a b-day dinner with friends, so not in a place to discuss!

So Bertrand, please start thread 2, because I think this was needed, and we continue this as a real discussion place! I'll be back Sunday!

[MIdgebabe]

Just because not everyone wants to avail themselves of a right is no reason not to support others in that right

Although I have to disagree with some posters here, I think we are talking basic human rights to privacy, dignity etc, not women's rights.

[Ereshkigal]

It's not a particularly "intersectional" approach to disregard the need for privacy and dignity, because women from other cultures may be less empowered to speak out, and may have needs such as female only swimming sessions etc.

Working class women/women dependent on the state are more likely to end up in a scary situation in unisex facilities in less safe areas than middle class women might choose to frequent. They are also more likely to have no choice than to use public services like shelters, hospital wards whereas middle class women are more likely to be able to have the financial ability to avoid this if it's important to them.

[Ereshkigal]

I totally agree it should apply to both sexes, but I do see it as slightly more of a female issue due to the huge power imbalance and vulnerability of women and girls to sexual crime and sexual harassment. And yes people have been forced to get naked with people of the opposite sex in prisons and shelters in the US and Canada too.

There's no point rehashing the "gender neutral/trans" single sex space arguments. I believe that privacy and dignity are fundamental sex based rights. They are certainly important to women here in the U.K.

[HulksPurplePanties]

I don't think anyone should have to get naked in front of anyone. I don't see that's as purely a female issue. If people in the UK are being forced to get naked in front of people, you've got bigger issues than feminism.

[Ereshkigal]

My point (however badly put) was that when you say this: the needs of women and girls, and our sex based rights you aren't speaking for all women, because there are no clear, unified, needs, wants & rights of all women. One woman's "woman only space" is another woman's "segregation". Currently there is no unified feminism that speaks for all women which is where the arguments come from.

I think it's reasonably common across cultures that people don't want the opposite sex present when they are naked or in a potentially humiliating situation. I don't think you can culturally relativise your way out of that, throw your hands up and say "there's no universal experience of being a woman so we can't ask for anything as a sex based right!". Anyway, in the U.K., this is certainly the norm.

[thatisnotfeminism]

OP I am not getting much chance to post here, but just going back to what I said up thread about someone saying they didn't know what to do about porn, and you said you had never heard that on FWR, but it was in fact you on this thread (unless I am going mad) - 1 dec 15:54 - I agree, cosima. I think the impact that poem [porn] is having in our society is much more significant than we realise. I think it is seriously damaging to the way men and women relate to each other, and is particularly bad for young women. But I have no idea what we can do about it. Did I misunderstand that? The post by cosima just above was about porn not a poem.

[HulksPurplePanties]

Currently there is no unified feminism that speaks for all women which is where the arguments come from.

Which is also why it may seem that the movement is being repurposed.

Sorry, should have concluded my thought, but they just brought pizza into the office and I was distracted!

[HulksPurplePanties]

That wasn't what I was referring to

I know what you were referring to, and in respect for Bertrand, I'm swerving it in different direction.

My point (however badly put) was that when you say this: the needs of women and girls, and our sex based rights you aren't speaking for all women, because there are no clear, unified, needs, wants & rights of all women. One woman's "woman only space" is another woman's "segregation". Currently there is no unified feminism that speaks for all women which is where the arguments come from.