AIBU to think that Mumsnet is becoming increasingly less feminist and that this..

[BertrandRussell]

..is a bad thing?

Women in their thousands are raped on their own homes by their partners. Women in their hundreds are murdered by their parters every year. Every day in this country children witness violence in the home.

So we just stop gatekeeping? We just let all Male bodied people in, because not enough women have been hurt by males that don’t identify as their own sex? How many men taking advantage of self I’d to harm women, is too many? How many women have to be harmed by those pretending to be trans, will it take? Is the four than white harmed not enough? Is the little girl that was attacked in the female toilets, not enough? Does it have to be your mother, sister, daughter before it’s enough? Could you give me a number please, so some sort of klaxon can go off when those men pretending to be trans have hit target?

And I git suckered in! Sorry OP.

I was disappointed by the number of posters mocking the person who asked if she was being unreasonable to mind about gendered language. I’ve always thought avoiding gendered language - tills being ‘manned’ etc - was feminism 101.

It would be good to stop "gatekeeping" feminism. It's not an exclusive club. Feminism exists for the benefit of women. All women. It makes no sense to me to bemoan the fact that more people are exposed to it here than have been previously.🤷‍♀️

Soon2BeMumof3 sorry,why were u directing your post to me.i never commented!

@Pinkblueberry

Jack Russells on acid

😂

Thank you for that.

Instead of 'clenching' (or hitting 'report') when I see one of those threads, I will just think JACK RUSSELLS ON ACID

I do think that healthy debate is dying a death in general and so more and more people resort to insults and condescension if you happen to disagree with them, if you make the stupid mistake of going against the grain on a thread you can even be subjected to a pile on for being the 'wrong' type of feminist (if that makes any sense?) so I tend to shy away from the topics in case I get on the wrong side of it again

Won't type of feminist? Or a 'handmaiden' or man!

I've no idea if it's more or less feminist than it was - I haven't been here long enough to know - but it's not particularly feminist now, particularly regarding attitudes to pornography.

For anyone reading along and who has a child/children with gender dysphoria, and is interested in support in taking a cautious approach to hormonal and surgical interventions, there is a ROGD parent support thread on FWR.

I think mum to mum support is feminist action. Other people's opinions, will, of course, differ.

A feminist is someone who puts women front and centre and considers the impact what she says or does has on other women.

Front and centre?
Your own definition of feminism maybe.

Feminism is about equality.

Your first post is brilliant @ChestnutSmoothie

some regular posters get frustrated with the same old "just asking questions" or "why are you mean" posts and that's quite understandable at times. I'm not convinced many of the information seeking / please explain to me threads are started in good faith.

Exactly. Wide-eyed new posters come ‘just wanting to be educated’, or to ‘answer our questions’ but then turn out to be suspiciously well-informed or have all the same lines as the similar poster last week.

ATM it’s Caitlyn Jenner. Last month it was ‘I’m a trans teen and...’

Screenshots from the thread might start showing up on Twitter. Occasionally you’ll get an idiot who discusses the thread with their TRA mates on Twitter while they’re posting on it in whatever guise they’re using.

The latest one, dissatisfied with how the thread was going, couldn’t keep their mask on & ended up with a quite spectacular misogynist rant featuring a yell of ‘Long live the penis’.

That’s why FWR women are wary.

That ‘handmaiden’ insult is tired though, and what was the other one ‘sealioning’. It’s stuff like that that makes people think can I be bothered to post. Like I said I’m mostly in agreement with general views but on occasion have not been and it’s hard to have a debate. Usually more sarcasm than debate. Probably puts people off.

I get that some think it’s people infiltrating but sometimes it’s an mner

Anyway I’d get rid of the handmaiden insult. As it’s directed at women I assume so not the people typically infiltrating.

Long live the penis

😂🤣 thank you for making my Saturday morning a little brighter.

You spend enough time telling posters they aren't feminist they'll believe you and stay away from/hide the Feminist Board

^^this absolutely. My experience is unless you fit a narrow definition of views you are just told you aren't feminist.

The women-only spaces are interesting I think. Because personally I have no issue with mixed as long as there are cubicles. I get that statistically it's less safe but surely that's because of the males' (ie those with a penis) behaviour not because of the cubicles and this is what needs to be challenged rather making it a trans issue 🤷🏻‍♀️. Elsewhere this is totally acknowledged (y'know women should be allowed out in the dark on their own, in short skirts etc even though it is less safe)

When the feminist boards accept discussion without so-called feminists banging onto other women that they aren't feminist because they disagree with them there will be more feminists on Mumsnet. What about the impact that behaviour has on other women?

some regular posters get frustrated with the same old "just asking questions" or "why are you mean" posts and that's quite understandable at times. I'm not convinced many of the information seeking / please explain to me threads are started in good faith.

So the feminism boards aren't to discuss feminism. If regular posters are bored by this why don't they go elsewhere? 😂

Karen White is one person. Women in their thousands are raped on their own homes by their partners. Women in their hundreds are murdered by their parters every year. Every day in this country children witness violence in the home.

What does karen white have in common with the men that are raping and murdering their partners have in common?

If you care about women being vulnerable and being raped, why would you be ok with Karen White being in a womens prison.

You can care about all these issues and some of us can see it's all part of the same problem.

I think the concept of the “pile-on” is interesting. Surely if you express what seems to be a minority viewpoint on a particular thread you should expect a lot of responses? This doesn’t just apply to feminism. I’m a bit of a snowflake, and often get roundly walloped for my “PC gorn mad” viewpoints. Frankly, if you think you’ve had your arse handed to you on a feminist board you should try saying something feminist anywhere else!

Responses are fine. But sarcasm in response or insults less so. It’s why you get ‘echo chamber’ effect. Fine if that’s what people want but if they do want to change then it’s a tip on how to not put people off.

But it's not putting people off is it, its putting some people off, but the rates of traffic through the feminist board are high. That's why MN puts up with it

I have to ask.... why can't we have an echo chmaber f our ouwn?

Everyone else seems to have one. They even get Great God Internet and the twins Twitter and Facebook hleping them out by banning GC voices.

We get MNHQ asking us to monitor our language; allow non members to report and complain; get 3 strikes and your out for forgetting the compelled speech and accidentally calling a man a man; and lots of presumably female posters moaning about GC posts being 'mean' because we won't deny biology, such consensus being an echo chamber.

I’m sure some people do get a bit carried away. I’ve been called some choice things in my time. But (and I’m sorry for the cliche) there is a long history of telling women to be nicer, or use gentler language. You catch more flies with honey- and so on. But it doesn’t seem to make any difference, frankly! Point out inequality- and be told “Tell me about it in different, sweeter words and I might just pay attention”

Traffic is high might be the same number people responding to these infiltrators, Those threads run and run. Not great debate though for women on mn. I wouldn’t put too much store in what mnhq allow, they probably only get a flavour from reports.

By echo chamber I don’t mean against outside mn I mean within. So you get some mners avoiding it.

it's not putting people off is it, its putting some people off,

Well obviously, but it's still putting people off isn't it? The whole subject of this thread is why is MN less feminist than it used to be. Interestingly I definitely consider myself feminist but cba to constantly defend that on the feminist boards, so I rarely bother reading them even.

The thing is bert that for me in terms of being 'nice' it's fine to be direct, it's fine to disagree. What isn't fine is piling on and the snarkiness of some posters.

Some of this is people who can't see shades of grey in life and that it's their opinion or you are wrong. An annoying feature though both online and in rl in both males and females.....

“Interestingly I definitely consider myself feminist but cba to constantly defend that on the feminist boards, so I rarely bother reading them even.”
Are you talking about defending yourself on trans issues?