AIBU to cancel holiday for DD agreed 26?

[Felinefancier]

DD, 26 is trying to pursue a career in music. As a result she has never held a conventional job for long, has little money and has lived on and off in properties that I own. I charge her less than market rent but she often falls behind on payment and has in the past said that since I am financially secure, I should let her live rent free. Through contacts with a friend of mine I got her well paid job but she left after 3 weeks. She suffers from depression. I have tried to help but she frequently lashes out at me verbally and I'm finding it very stressful.

I popped in to see her about a month ago because she was down. She exploded said that I was manipulative by turning up unannounced and asked me to give her space. She moved out and did not tell me where she was going. I still don't know where she is living. I have flights booked to see friends over New Year. This morning I messaged her to ask if she still wanted to come. She called me back and said my messaging of her was manipulative and asking for apologies for previous manipulative behaviour on my part.

However I'm damned if I do damned if I don't. If I don't contact her she tells me I am heartless and uncaring and if I do contact her she tells me I'm manipulating her. I now want to cancel the trip as I know it is going to be unpleasant to have her around.

AIBU

It's a shame that you didn't say more right at the start feline. It's taken 6 pages before you said you are seeing an NHS psychotherapist . Is that time limited? It's presumably focusing on your own childhood, not so much your role as a mum.

Most counselling/ therapy provided by GPs has a limit of 6 sessions. (I had a counselling friend who got GP referrals.)

Is it dealing with what's going on now with your DDs?

Maybe you need some real help around being a parent. I'm truly shocked at how you allow your younger DD to stay with you for a few days then tell her to go home to her shared house. That must be incredibly painful for her unless she is behaving badly in your home or you are arguing.

No child even as an adult wants to be shown that their parent has a pretty short tolerance level of them being around.

It comes over as incredibly harsh to tell her 'I need some space, I want you to go.'

Can you see this?

There’s plenty of constructive comment for you here OP, even if some of them could have been written more gently.

You have reached a point where you are seeking serious change. Perhaps your DD has yet to get to that point. Is she seeing someone or is trying to separate her from her family? Has she had any counselling herself? She seems to frequently use a lot of terms that is used in therapy but if she is receiving any, I also wonder how reputable the counsellor is.

This seems a very complex situation.

When she says she felt unloved, I believe her. She is showing many signs that she finds being around you difficult. I also think she doesn't have much consideration for you in practical matters because of the feeling unloved. She is so focused on her unmet emotional needs she doesn't have the space to focus on being considerate to you, and probably thinks she doesn't have to. She's been hurt tremendously by you, and is still confused by your relationship i think.

I think I would stop bailing her out and paying for things, but instead focus on the emotional side of the relationship. I think maybe she's not moving on to be an adult because she is not happy with her childhood and wants to get that 'fixed' before she moves on. Getting you to keep her in childhood in a financial way as a form of nurturing from you, maybe. I'm doing a lot of armchair analysis here but i have some experience as i was a little like your DD.

Apart from the financials, my mum could easily write a post similar to yours. I DO feel triggered by my mother, and i would see the offer of a trip as somewhat manipulative. I wouldn't trust her motives. It appears your daugher doesn't trust yours either.

But you can't go back and meet her emotional needs of childhood now. Have you ever been able to empathise with her and understand her pain about her childhood, without saying you tried your best? Have you been able to own the ways you fell short as a mother and a person? We all fall short, so it's not an indication of personal failure. Your shortcomings would have affected DD.

Apologising is not giving in to her. You can have strong boundaries around money and everything else, so you're in control of that. But really hearing, listening and understanding her childhood pain and the role you caused will make her feel seen and validated by you, and my gut feeling is that's what she wants.

My suggestion would be:

Deep level talk, understand the ways she didnt feel loved

Apologise, saying you never ever meant to make her feel that way. Tell her all the ways in which she is loved (NOT 'i did this for you, i did that for you), but talking about her and how much you love her

Set boundaries around finances, and a timeframe at which point you'll stop providing, whatever her reaction is. Tell her money isnt love and it's time for her to make her way in the world. You'll be her cheerleader, but you won't fix it for her!!

After that, let go. Once you've given her closure on the childhood, apology, and a reassurance she is deeply loved and valued, and set your boundaries re finance, it is up to her to respond. She will need space from you then, to grow into her adult self.

I'm not sure @Felinefancier why you booked plane tickets for a family holiday with a DD who has moved somewhere and you don't know where, who has asked for some space from you and is verbally abusive.

It seems somewhat controlling on your part to arrange a trip for a woman of 26 who may not want to be with you.
What was your thinking behind it?

If you want her to behave like an adult treat her as one. That means giving her options not dictating what she does.

It sounds as if you are not really listening to her or reading between the lines at all.

Yes, her behaviour sounds poor but what she says is really a cry for help in a perverse way.

I think the issue is that both of you are so deep in this mire than you both simply 'react' - often in a push-pull way- but the underlying reasons for the conflict between you are unresolved- and that needs expert help.

Maybe think about changing your therapist- they aren't all good at everything.

I would continue to ring and send messages. Still go away and assume that she isn't coming.

deprssion isnt manipulation.but you do become incredibly inside yourself.saying you want to kill yourself isnt manipulating you either.
this thread is a roll call of all the things people still dont understand about being depressed,suicidal and emotionly fucked up.
if she really has got a mental illness then for whatever reason she is suffering.and inside herself she will be feeling all the things nyou are but tenfold.
and youve wrote how youve fallen short with her over the years.bbut as the person on the other end of that it would have and obviously has really ffected her.
and you keep dribbling th bits out that fit your narrative.but i bet frmo her point of viw it would sound very different
on mn if a child over 18 is struggling they are selfish grabby slobs. or perhaps some of them could actually be struggling.could actually need more support than others.
being 20 0r 40 or 60 doesnt stop you from getting poorly with your mental health.and it reverts you back inside yourself until your uncertain of everything.and what comes with that is a desperate need for someone,anyone to just make you feel safe again.and it can come across as needy or selfish or maniulativ when actually it is the person suffering from such uncertainty abbout who they are and where they belong that they want someone to tell them they fit,they are wanted and are loved.
like when a toddler will push and push and push.or a baby screams.they have no other way yet of emotioanly telling nyou "help somethngs wrong!" its the same.so they grab and do anything just for someone to catch them.and we shouldnt always think they are dicks for doing this.but really struggling to tell us whats happening and how we can hlp.
and when you cant put your fingr on it straight away thy get upset.yes its fucking annoying sometimes but its still them suffering.its still their sickness.we get to walk away from it at certain points.they dont.they live inside it in their heads all the time.
and ive seen what it can do to someone and its awful.and for those on the outside.you never no what to do.but neither do they.its ahrd for everyone.and can only ever work when you try to help as bes tyou each can.
and the years you have to comprimise and feel like you stepping on eggshells can be so bloody annoying.but they arent doing it on purpose.(mostly)if they are ill they are ill.

@kateandme You have some really good points there but any chance you can format it differently without all the line breaks ? it's really hard to read.

@kateandme well said

@kateandme Hope you don't mind but put some paragraphs in so posters can read your great post.

depression isnt manipulation.but you do become incredibly inside yourself.

saying you want to kill yourself isnt manipulating you either.

this thread is a roll call of all the things people still dont understand about being depressed,suicidal and emotionly fucked up.

if she really has got a mental illness then for whatever reason she is suffering.and inside herself she will be feeling all the things you are but tenfold.

and youve wrote how youve fallen short with her over the years.
but as the person on the other end of that it would have and obviously has really affected her.

and you keep dribbling the bits out that fit your narrative.

but i bet from her point of view it would sound very different
on mn if a child over 18 is struggling they are selfish grabby slobs. or perhaps some of them could actually be struggling.could actually need more support than others.

being 20 0r 40 or 60 doesnt stop you from getting poorly with your mental health.
and it reverts you back inside yourself until your uncertain of everything.

and what comes with that is a desperate need for someone,anyone to just make you feel safe again.

and it can come across as needy or selfish or maniulative when actually it is the person suffering from such uncertainty about who they are and where they belong that they want someone to tell them they fit,they are wanted and are loved.

like when a toddler will push and push and push.or a baby screams.they have no other way yet of emotioanly telling you "help somethngs wrong!"

its the same.
so they grab and do anything just for someone to catch them.

and we shouldnt always think they are dicks for doing this.but really struggling to tell us whats happening and how we can help.
and when you cant put your finger on it straight away they get upset.

yes its fucking annoying sometimes but its still them suffering.its still their sickness.we get to walk away from it at certain points.they dont.
they live inside it in their heads all the time.
and ive seen what it can do to someone and its awful.and for those on the outside.you never no what to do.but neither do they.

its hard for everyone.and can only ever work when you try to help as best you each can.

and the years you have to comprimise and feel like you stepping on eggshells can be so bloody annoying. but they arent doing it on purpose.(mostly)if they are ill they are ill.

There must come a time when enough is enough. Rent out your property, cancel the tickets or find someone to go with you.

She's an adult, time to behave like one.

Thanks for all your posts guys I've found them really helpful and thought provoking. I really appreciate people taking time out to give advice to a stranger.

A lot of food for thought for me. A few people seemed to be just having a go but they are easily ignored.

Not quite sure what decision I will take regarding DD26 but there's a lot to consider before I decide what to do.

The main thing is to try to support her without trying over into enabling, whilst looking after my own mental health as well.

Trying over = tipping over.

JinglingHellsBells not at all please feel free to have the job of making all my posts make sense!

For one my grammar and vocabulary is embarassingly, miserably crap.and two, my phone loves doing funny things to the type and layout it sets my post to.though it's more my crap vocab.

Thank you. And for finding what I said worth while.

NameChangedNoImagination thanks.doesn't happen often.😶🙄