To change who I'm voting for based on one news story?

[ShouldIStayOrShouldIRun]

This one ->

www.itv.com/news/2019-11-27/jeremy-corbyn-says-uncensored-documents-show-nhs-is-part-of-toxic-post-brexit-trade-talks-with-us/

I had already decided to vote for the conservatives, mainly because I couldn't bring myself to vote for any of the others who seem hell bent on gleefully ripping up womens rights. I've always voted so abstaining/spoiling wasn't an option.

But after reading/watching the above I think I am going to switch to voting labour. We are a disabled family, and could never afford to pay for healthcare (and I doubt insurance would touch us with a barge pole).

I don't like Momentum/Corbyn really but I'd rather complain and fight for my right to a single sex ward than not be able to use one at all

Re: brexit I voted remain in the last referendum but to be honest just have fatigue about the whole thing, so I'm not basing my vote on any of that. (Though seems a second vote isn't that terrible an idea).

Just posting because I can't see anything on here about this yet and I've gone from feeling quietly confident that Conservatives would win to feeling nervous about it now. Anyone else?

What I just can’t work out is why when you see so many doctors, nurses, gps, ambulance drivers, anyone who works in the nhs really, all sign up and practically beg for us to note vote for Tory WHY do we not stop and listen to those who are in the thick of it? The people who keep it running despite severe lack of funding, 40,000 nurse vacancies in England alone, why don’t we trust what they are saying?? How can you dismiss what they are saying??

Tories insist the NHS is not for sale - which must disappoint Conservative co-chair Ben Elliot, whose firm Hawthorn Advisers lobbies for foreign-owned private health firms, including one which took 25% of the UK's adult social care market. Full story in new Private Eye, out now.

Sorry couldn't get the link to work but if you Google it you'll find its Nov 2019.
There's been a blurring of public law and private law under both tories and labour, neither are innocent, but Tories are taking it further into private hands (not officially privatisation, but privatisation in practice) than ever before.

I don't think Tories are evil. I do think they believe the private market yields better results. I do think that's true for some things, but I don't think the NHS is included in that.

@tiggertogger I’m not a bot. Please look at my posting history!

I’m 30 with a nearly 3 y/o daughter and currently going through chemo to get rid of a cancer that was meant to be easily treatable. Musicious if you care (which to won’t)

If it wasn’t for the NHS I doubt I’d be here. So PLEASE go fuck yourself with your very boring bot accusations.

This OP is one of our many momentum trolls. Corbyn's assertion has, unsurprisingly, been fact checked as false. Oh and where is OP? That user is too busy sock puppeting to check facts.

It absolutely hasn’t. Read the documents for yourself.

Cendrillon that says absolutely nothing at all about the impact of a US trade deal. Why even post it?

Fact check this eve says that although US wanted to discuss pharmaceutical pricing etc, gov didn't acquiesce.

This is a ridiculous argument about a deal which is not yet done. If we leave with no deal, we will not be in a position to refuse - I don’t see why this is difficult to understand.

From America’s own published US-U.K. trade talks document: “Procedural Fairness for Pharmaceuticals and Medical Devices:

• Seek standards to ensure that government regulatory reimbursement regimes are transparent, provide procedural fairness, are nondiscriminatory, and provide full market access for U.S. products.”

ustr.gov/sites/default/files/Summary_of_U.S.-UK_Negotiating_Objectives.pdf

We already purchase American drugs when they are the best option, so what do you think this means?

What I just can’t work out is why when you see so many doctors, nurses, gps, ambulance drivers, anyone who works in the nhs really, all sign up and practically beg for us to note vote for Tory WHY do we not stop and listen to those who are in the thick of it?
That's not the case though, you only hear those who are vocal about voting labour. Many NHS workers wouldn't consider voting for labour for a minute.

Have you watched this? I’ve neber cringed so hard in my life

The thing is Labour voters tend to be very vocal, and you get lots of memes going up on social media etc, personally I don’t think anyone who feels the need to ‘educate’ others to their way of thinking realise that the constant lecturing and propaganda is very off-putting.

And then when the shock sets in when results come in which reflect the whole community rather than their social media bubble the lecturing starts again - rather than reflect on why other people choose different parties/results it’s easier to lecture and berate anyone who thinks differently.

Labour should have walked the last GE, and this one. Hopefully when they lose this time they will ditch momentum and begin to be a proper opposition again.

God is there anything worse than a smug Tory?

This OP is one of our many momentum trolls. Corbyn's assertion has, unsurprisingly, been fact checked as false. Oh and where is OP? That user is too busy sock puppeting to check facts.

🙄

If you'd bothered to read my posts (which none of the rabid conspiracy theory posters seemed to have) you'd have seen I'd given up on the post for the night.

Bizarre, I've never been accused of being a bot/troll on any other thread. Politics just brings out all the ravers these days.

Oh and I read the document for myself thanks, I know what it says and it is enough for me to change my vote believe it ir not.

The 'fact checking' I read either stated the obvious (it isn't 100% definitely up for sale) or got it wrong itself (Guido one said a phrase wasn't used that certainly was).

If you think I'm sock puppeting then report me/the thread to MN. They take a dim view of that I believe.

When wetherspoons are offering health insurance as a perk you know it's time to fear for the NHS.

The thing is Labour voters tend to be very vocal, and you get lots of memes going up on social media etc, personally I don’t think anyone who feels the need to ‘educate’ others to their way of thinking realise that the constant lecturing and propaganda is very off-putting.
Ha ha ha, of course, only labour do this!!!!
I’ve worked in the NHS for years, have family who work in it, believe me Tory voters are VERY few and far between in there! My brother has voted Tory for 30 years and worked in the NHS for all those years, in charge of budgets, he’s not voting Tory for the first time ever.
I have always totally respected how people vote, I still do, I’d never have a go at any friends who vote Tory, it’s a personal choice. However I do not accept that lots of people who work in the NHS vote Tory.

Mjlp "How are Labour ripping up women's rights?"

Are you serious? Labour have publicly confirmed that they think being a woman is nothing more than an indescribable, ever-changing feeling in a man's head.

Take away the actual definition of what being a woman is, and you instantly remove every way to protect women's rights. They are already well on the way to that, by employing males as women's officers and promising to make that ethereal "internal essence" a legally binding right, bringing with it "women" rapists, "ladydick", and ushering in the most profoundly homo (lesbo)phobic era for decades and medicating (mostly female) children to endure lifelong sterility and worse.

That's how Labour are ripping up women's rights. By denying women their own existence.

You should never rely on just one news story: order-order.com/2019/11/27/corbyn-claims-documents-say-versus-actually-say/

Secondly, Labour has long had the nhs as it’s basic vote winning strategy, even if the Tories doubled spending on it Labour would just offer to spend more.

Thirdly, consider the consequences of a Corbyn government. If there is a run on the pound imported NHS drugs will become much more expensive and fewer overseas professionals will come to Britain to staff the NHs. Also, if there is a fall in the tax take due to companies and high net worth individuals relocating then all government spending will be endangered.

Provincia why are you linking to Guido Fawkes? Who’s next, Breitbart? The Britain First Facebook page (if they’re still allowed one)?

It’s ironic that you accuse others of only reading one news story then post that load of absolute drivel. Some of the points they make are deliberately contradicted by the screenshots they then post.

Thirdly, consider the consequences of a Corbyn government. If there is a run on the pound imported NHS drugs will become much more expensive and fewer overseas professionals will come to Britain to staff the NHs

What do you think will happen to the pound when we leave the EU, with no deal being the most likely?

What will happen to the NHS when we are forced to accept terms which will cost the NHS billions more for medications, just to get the trade deal we need? What will happen when even one of those companies decides to hike the price of say Humira when we can’t access generics due to such an agreement?

You cannot possibly be this naive.

Secondly, Labour has long had the nhs as it’s basic vote winning strategy, even if the Tories doubled spending on it Labour would just offer to spend more.

Ah, the good old "Elevenerife" play

Well if Tory HQ say so, it must be true - they’re known for their honestly, like changing the name of the CCHQ twitter account to “Fact Check UK” for the debate.

Considering Brexit was blocked why do you think parliament would let this through

Tory Cuts of the last 9 years have disproportionately affected women.

The Women's Budget Group Report on The Impact Of Austerity On Women In The UK states:

' Austerity has a disproportionate impact on women’s lives. When it comes to cuts in public spending, women are affected by a ‘triple whammy’:1

• Women use more public services and are the majority of welfare benefit recipients. This is because women are more likely to be poor, a consequence of a looser attachment to the labour market due to their traditional role as unpaid carers2, they have a longer life expectancy, and their responsibility to manage care for children, elderly people and sick and disabled people.3

• Women make up the majority of the public-sector labour force. Cuts to public spending and to public sector jobs have thus sent many women into unemployment or low-paid and temporary job positions, increasing their financial insecurity.4

• Women are more likely to have to make up for lost services by increasing the amount of unpaid care work they perform in looking after elderly, disabled or young family members

www.ohchr.org/Documents/Issues/Development/IEDebt/WomenAusterity/WBG.pdf

Considering Brexit was blocked why do you think parliament would let this through

Well that would depend on whether the tories have a signicant enough majority to get it through, which they may have after this election. The only reason Brexit has been blocked is because the tories didn’t have a working majority (even less now of course since defections to the Lib Dems).

Well if Tory HQ say so, it must be true

Yet when the party in question is Labour, everything they utter is the gospel truth? Why not apply that same critical thinking to both parties?