To change who I'm voting for based on one news story?

[ShouldIStayOrShouldIRun]

This one ->

www.itv.com/news/2019-11-27/jeremy-corbyn-says-uncensored-documents-show-nhs-is-part-of-toxic-post-brexit-trade-talks-with-us/

I had already decided to vote for the conservatives, mainly because I couldn't bring myself to vote for any of the others who seem hell bent on gleefully ripping up womens rights. I've always voted so abstaining/spoiling wasn't an option.

But after reading/watching the above I think I am going to switch to voting labour. We are a disabled family, and could never afford to pay for healthcare (and I doubt insurance would touch us with a barge pole).

I don't like Momentum/Corbyn really but I'd rather complain and fight for my right to a single sex ward than not be able to use one at all

Re: brexit I voted remain in the last referendum but to be honest just have fatigue about the whole thing, so I'm not basing my vote on any of that. (Though seems a second vote isn't that terrible an idea).

Just posting because I can't see anything on here about this yet and I've gone from feeling quietly confident that Conservatives would win to feeling nervous about it now. Anyone else?

YANBU, God knows where I'd be without the NHS. We need to protect it.

Why would anyone in that income bracket vote Labour?

This is a staggering question and says a lot about you.

Your DH literally deals with NHS patients every day. He sees first hand what the underfunding does to the NHS, and he sees people who can afford private care and what that means for them.

The fact that a marginal tax increase of 5% on earnings over £80k is enough for him to stick the finger up to his NHS patients in such a manner is frankly appalling.

Not all high earners vote Tory, you know.

Across the UK, anyone with existing health conditions or a disability/a child with a disability, should be very, very worried tonight. I have a disabled child. I am almost sick with anxiety...not ONE person on this site has ever said anything to make me think voting for the Tories is a good and right thing to do.

Why would anyone in that income bracket vote Labour?*

Everything you need to know about Tory voters, right there in one sentence.

It was Labour who started the sale of the NHS for fucks sake.

YANBU

And suggesting there is some kind of moral superiority in voting Labour is execrable. Tanking the economy will fuck over the poorest and those who are mobile will be long gone.

Except a large number of economists disagree with you and probably know more about it than you do, wouldn’t you say? Have you read their letter, posted multiple times here?

Why? It’s not me in that income bracket. but it is you who can’t fathom it.

He thinks the NHS is a bottomless pit and that no amount of money will ever be enough because demand is almost infinite. He also thinks it’s an incredibly badly managed organization with terrible employment practices.

Fortunately Labour don’t just plan to throw money at it.

Will the tories reform the NHS? Will a trade deal with America help the NHS? Of course not.

"He thinks the NHS is a bottomless pit and that no amount of money will ever be enough because demand is almost infinite. He also thinks it’s an incredibly badly managed organization with terrible employment practices."

And he is absolutely 100% correct. You know who I always thought would be best placed to replace the shoddy management... Have you ever seen a top customer service manager (at director level) who juggles clients, kpi's, csat scores, supply, demand, workflow, support teams and overall management, integrating the entire way down to floor staff? (successfully)

They are the type of people who should be running the NHS. They'd wipe the floor with current management and management styles.

YANBU.

“ show what US officials have demanded - not what the UK government has agreed to accept.”

Jesus fucking christ. let me spell it out to anyone who doesn't understand - when little England all by it's lonesome (and it pretty much will be just England because Scotland will fuck off, NI will unify with ROI and eventually Wales will start reviewing its options) and bereft of all the trade deals it had as a member of the EU, goes into trade talks with the world superpower that is the U.S then what the U.S officials demand is exactly what will happen. Because the UK alone does not have the power to do anything but meekly sign on the dotted line, pull their trousers down and bend over for the shafting.

The reason the US hates dealing with the EU so much is because they are two superpowers who deal on equal terms. Whereas when dealing with individual countries America just faxes over their demands and has them accepted immediately, the EU has the combined clout to argue the toss and protect their own interests.
We have voted to lose that clout for ourselves - and the U.S are salivating over what they can do to us because of it.
In the event of a post brexit UK/ U.S trade deal we will do exactly what America tells us. And that means selling the NHS, letting in big pharma and big agri, and accepting chlorine soaked chicken and removing place of origin labels from food so consumers can't even make informed decisions.

How many food banks, how many deaths by austerity, how much of an increase in homelessness, how many winters of the NHS being crippled does it take before people realise that this is exactly what the tories do? It's what they are. This is how they like the country - and they will sell off whatever they can to make their mates richer and the plebs poorer. It's not an accident that inequality has grown so much over the past decades - it is design

This isn't propaganda. This is reality and there is overwhelming evidence of the the utter disaster the tories have made of ruling for the past nine years and the cruelty of their policies.
I despair that people cannot see what is right under their nose.

read through this:
twitter.com/search?q=%23NotForSale&src=trend_click
and watch all the clips.

watch this one:
twitter.com/chessmartinez/status/1199685360378372102

this one includes parts of the documents
twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1199680172808687617

Here are doctors and nurses telling us the reality of what a tory win means for the NHS and begging us not to vote for them

twitter.com/siemaiqbal/status/1199654339125501952

So if you are reliant on the NHS, or just believe in it and want everyone to have access to free at the point of care treatment, if you don't want to see an American trade deal which will see us selling it off in return for accepting chlorine washed chicken and hormone ridden beef - from cruelly treated animals - go to this website:
comparethetacticals.com/
and look up who you should vote for in order to stop the tories getting a majority. Polls currently show that they will get one - but it takes only a relatively small proportion of the electorate to vote tactically to stop it. Make sure your vote counts as much as it possibly can.

Absolutely bang on pretzels - the idea that we will have any bargaining power with anyone after Brexit is utterly laughable.

The US also dislikes the EU because there is so much pesky human rights and workers rights legislation to which we are committed. But that won’t be a problem soon when we crash out with no deal.

The document contains various sets of minutes from meetings between the UK & US and
“ show what US officials have demanded - not what the UK government has agreed to accept.”

And in the event of a no deal Brexit, which is likely if the Tories get back in, the UK will very quickly find out that super-fantastic-great trade deals do not exist, that 'they' don't not need us more than we need them, and that we are not the big fish we believed ourselves to be.

When the US then turns around and says "these are our terms", the government will have to bend over and take it.

I am always a bit perplexed by those incandescent at the current state of the NHS and the ‘sale’ of it, when PFI was what really sealed its demise and that was all Blair and Brown. And I say that as someone who has previously voted Labour more often than not...Oh and American influence in British medicine? People do know who Pfizer and Johnson and Johnson are don’t they?

I haven't yet decided who to vote for but I do think it's funny what short memories people have - Tony Blair started the whole foray into PFI of the NHS back in 1997, it was new Labour’s magical solution to chronic under-investment in public services in the wake of Thatcherism.

How times have changed!

There's so many healthcare professionals saying the NHS can't survive much longer under the Tories. For all their faults I'm voting Labour.

YANBU

://www.google.com/search?q=nhs+funding+by+different+governments&client=tablet-android-samsung&prmd=niv&sxsrf=ACYBGNQwPqpyczt9ahVho3R0o7SH_3r7Vg:1574877849343&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwid9JiW_YrmAhX9WhUIHXtHD1cQ_AUoAnoECA4QAg&biw=768&bih=1024#imgrc=fGa7fLnYKVFWkM

@sunshine11. Snap 😁

Why perplexed? Just because people support Labour now doesn’t mean they voted for Labour under Blair and Brown. And while that government had some successes, they made some catastrophic errors of judgement - Iraq, PFI, WCAs to name a few (all of which Corbyn has consistently voted against, by the way). So I don’t understand this faux confusion.

Death What exactly happened that was so horrific you decided to vote for Corbyn but are not a labour supporter? Given you have described it in those exact terms. As if somehow Corbyn would have been unthinkable before (so you do understand where the rest of us are coming from)
That is quite a punchy statement. It seems to me you are holding someone directly responsible, so much so that you are on every thread berating anyone that is (rightly) reconsidering their options when faced with the trillions Corbyn is pledging to buy up failing businesses in his effort to overturn capitalism. Is it any wonder that his pledge to spend this volume is unnerving many people to put it lightly?

The breathtaking arrogance of Labour/Momentum that they are actually believe they can overthrow capitalism just by winning this election is really striking, as if once this country has been 'converted' others will all just follow suit into some Corbyn utopia. The financial system and capitalism will continue as before, as it keeps the world largely at peace, and it works. The UK will simply crash and burn along the lines of Venezuela changing nothing but the deficit and the unemployment stats.

The likes of paddy who is a good old SNP voter would like nothing more than to see the country burn, it is posters like him/her that want to harm us, so they champion Corbyn on forums like this and try to distort reality, knowing full well they fan the flames of discord and disharmony.
Yes we do know that you would love Labour to win so that you can get your referendum next year, even though it was supposed to be a once in a generation opportunity. Democracy is quickly cast aside if it comes up with the wrong answer it seems. It has the added bonus of a kick in the bollocks to Boris, and if the country sinks well so what you hate England anyway. I wonder who will be paying the Scottish bills then though???

The point is the labour hardcore on here certainly do not have the UK's best interests at heart at all, they are mostly voting out of self interest - it is harmful and misleading to say otherwise.

And what is most galling of all is the short term limited thinking skills of those that bleat on endlessly about the UK doing a deal with the US, and how the terms won't be good blah blah blah, as if the whole world started and finished with the US?! With such limited ability to understand that the UK I guess is intending to do deals with countries all over the world, they can set the terms and conditions and agree them cordially with other countries - just as every other country in the world does right now.

I voted to remain, but I find it pretty hard to stomach reading that we will be 'sold out' to the US, this is simply not the case at all. One of the only good things that will come out of this whole brexit business is the real and tangible scope for developing our relationships with other countries, it is perhaps one of the only things I find truly exciting.

Boris just thinks he can blatantly lie to us and we are stupid enough to believe it.

I don’t know anyone who works in the NHS that would vote Conservative.

All those of you panicking about Corbyn bankrupting the U.K. need to look at this and then relax.

He isn't going to ruin us.