MIL....bloody MIL

[Whyyyyytho]

I am in the very early stages of pregnancy. I had to tell her about this because we were out together and I was taken ill. I asked her to please, please not tell anyone, including his siblings as his sister is rather unpleasant and has caused some problems in the past with nastiness.

Obviously she has now told the sister and does not think she has done anything wrong/can’t see the issue/won’t apologise. Despite having said she wouldn’t tell her, her answer is “we are a family and I don’t want to keep secrets”.

I’m only 8 weeks ffs I don’t want anyone to know. Why has she done this?! AIBU to just never tell her anything ever again or update her re the pregnancy. I’m so irritated.

OP, she sounds absolutely hideous! That crap about returning the presents was all about emotional blackmail and trying to make herself out to be the victim.

She sounds incredibly self-centred - and batshit, as said above.

You gave her a chance when she behaved horribly with the photos of you, but her being nice recently is obviously a huge act. She’s shown you she’s the same nasty person underneath the fake niceness.

You can’t reason with unreasonable people. They just don’t get it. You think that if you keep trying to explain, they’ll eventually understand. They won’t

Save yourself and your family the grief and go no contact. If you have to keep in contact for DH sake, keep it very low, and always keep in mind who she is underneath, no matter how much she pretends to be nice.

Maybe she was worried as you'd been taken ill? In reality what harm has been done?

You really don't believe that she's malicious?
After everything she's done?

@headinhands a lot. She's been a bitch and ruined the relationship with her son and his family.

Ghastly behaviour with the pics & her recent texts.
Batshit, malicious, overbearing & capricious. More & more it sounds like some kinda disordered personality, & there is NO reasoning with 'em ... they cannot see anyone else's perspective 'cos their filters are permanently set to "view through my ego only".

Classic line from her about returning the presents. Pass-agg AND controlling. Again, symptom of disorder - when other people are either golden or beyond the pale, it has to be extreme or it isn't fitting their need for a dramatic narrative, with them as the star of the show.
Very tempting to tell her to do what she likes with the presents - letting her know that as she has just demonstrated, it's immaterial what she SAYS when she will simply DO whatever she feels like anyway.

So frustrating & exhausting to deal with her drama. She cannot offer you an apology because in her mind to do so would be to admit what would feel like weakness to her. These people cannot ever be wrong. Get ready to be cast in the mould of either "my wonderful DiL who has given me MY perfect grandchild" or "that stupid cow who doesnt know how to bring up MY grandchild" & to have her see-saw through these at whim ....

Conversely, you could kidnap the old bat, along with DH's ex, & strand them on a desert island where they can enjoy deserving each other :)
Am so sorry MiL has ramped her shit up again, but glad DH has your back - it would be unbearable if he didn't. Suspect the best advice is Grey Rock, imagine you know about that one OP? Link below for anyone who might find it helpful -
www.e-counseling.com/mental-health/what-is-the-grey-rock-method/

If it matters that things are private, the only way to keep them so is to tell no one

In reality what harm has been done?

Really? She LIED.
It's not the importance of the subject matter of the lie, it's the fact of the lie itself.
Lies break trust, they demonstrate that the liar feels that the lied-to don't deserve truth, & they sabotage goodwill.

Maybe she was worried as you'd been taken ill?

She was worried so she told her daughter 1-2 weeks later??😆

@messolini9

Thank you for your post - you are completely correct and I appreciate you taking the time. It’s frustrating because I always feel like I can get through and explain but it’s not possible. DH has told her to return the gifts or not - whatever she wants. Who cares! DH is actually very upset now as it’s opened up the old wounds of her just not showing up at our wedding.

tell her to do what she likes with the presents - letting her know that as she has just demonstrated, it's immaterial what she SAYS when she will simply DO whatever she feels like anyway.

This! I assume you're definitely not going for lunch now at the weekend.

Glad your DH has told her that. At every point she must be made aware that her decisions are hers alone.

What an arse of a woman, unwell or not.

@headinhands the damage that has been done is that trust has been destroyed.

Anyone who breaks a confidence in my life no longer has my trust. In anything.
Maybe people should think about that before they blab something told to them in confidence.

No contact is my advice OP.

I'm sorry but the more you say about this woman the more I think you should just all stay well away from her. Just imagine the toxic influence she's going to have on your kids?!

Imagine, God forbid, one of your kids has a serious allergy, say to dairy for example, and she's under strict instructions never to hand them any chocolate (even if you never leave kids with her). She is almost certainly going to ignore you on this and hand said child a chocolate when you're not looking. She won't listen to you! She has her own ideas of parenting and ultimately, she clearly has ZERO respect for you personally. That much is obvious.

So whether it's an allergy or a personal parenting choice, ANYTHING you ask her not to do (or to make sure she does) she WILL do.
As the kids get older, it'll be bitching about you to the kids, giving them what you've strictly forbidden, out doing your presents, sympathy when you've told one of them off etc etc, she WILL ignore you. Pulling her up on it won't make a jot of difference. She knows best (she thinks).

Nobody or nothing will change her way of thinking, sadly.

Why are you expecting a relationship that doesn't exist. Why were you out shopping with her, to begin with? My mil is fairly alright as mils go. I don't go shopping with her. I don't ring her. I don't have much of a relationship outside the occasional visit. She's my husband's mother, but she's not my "friend".

There is no point discussing anything with your mil. She doesn't see, or doesn't want to admit, fault on her part. All you're doing is stressing yourselves out. I don't know why your husband bothered with a 40 minute call with her.

She is far too involved in your lives. Step back. You don't need her. You don't need to share things with her. You don't need to be friends, or have a relationship beyond civil pleasantries at family gatherings.

Stop expecting something that doesn't exist.

And why do you say SIL is "inexplicable" friends with your husband's ex? Surely they knew each other and were friends when he was with her. Why should that friendship stop because she stopped going out with sil's brother?

My BIL is divorced from his wife. I'm still very good friends with her. If it wasn't for our friendship our children (who are cousins) wouldn't know each other because the brothers certainly wouldn't be arranging meetups!

Wow! She’s a piece of work! (We are getting similar shit from my MIL, only DH is still choosing to look for redeeming features. Her litany of crimes is unbelievable - if it were up to me, we would have hired a hitman years ago.) Meanwhile, sorry you are dealing with this nasty pasty. Great that DH is on your side. Congrats on the pregnancy too!

Does your MIL think your DH is still a child, what with threatening to return his birthday presents if he’s naughty?

Sad that she thinks that is leverage against him to get him to get you to back down. I doubt it is. I know mine would be “sod your presents then” in same situation.

Your updates are worse and worse! She sounds like an absolute dick.

I was going to suggest conversations along the lines of
MIL: do you know your due date/gender/etc?
YOU: yes
MIL: when/what is it?
YOU: I don’t want to say

Ie give her no info. However, she sounds so awful I don’t think I’d even be wanting to see her.

DH has told her to return the gifts or not - whatever she wants. Who cares! DH is actually very upset now as it’s opened up the old wounds of her just not showing up at our wedding.

Interesting, especially in light of pp wondering why DH bothered with a 40-minute phone call.
I would guess it's because he is still trapped in FOG. His mother presumably didn't start acting out & Narc'ing all over the shop on the day he got married, & I wonder what hell she gave him as a lad? - so he, despite his clear resolution & backbone, is still trapped in the FOG.
OP gave a second chance & is regretting it - similar dynamic - as reasonable, rational people, we keep believing that treating others reasonably & rationally will result in improved outcomes.

Accepting that a relative is so disordered that this is never going to happen, that whatever you do/offer/negotiate/plead/warn will have absolutely zero effect - other than increase the drama as your disordered relative takes anything you offer them & twists it to ramp up their own personal dramatic narrative.

I wonder, @Whyyyyytho, if you & DH might benefit from investing in this utterly wonderful book? - www.amazon.co.uk/UNDERSTANDING-BORDERLINE-Transcend-Unpredictable-Relationship/dp/0765703319/ref=asc_df_0765703319/?hvlocphy=9046042&linkCode=df0&hvptwo&psc=1&psc=1&hvnetw=g&hvadid=310831412334&hvpone&hvlocint&th=1&hvpos=1o1&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl&hvqmt&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&hvtargid=aud-545671390501:pla-479632308684&hvrand=15024102490094166609

Whether MiL has BPD or not, she's certainly an overbearing, never-in-the-wrong bitch, & I suspect DH will recognise a LOT of scenarios & characters in the book. I hope it can give you both strength, insight & tactics as you continue to work together on how you handle MiL. It is highly recommended by peer-group Psych's, but written entirely for the laywoman.

& thanks OP for your sweet comment above - I am happy to have given any comfort! (& you won't be surprised to learn I am a survivor of a bpd mother. Arrrgggh)

Your dc don't need a dgm like her.
Your dh can't surely want you all subjected to her toxic ways?
Me and dh are nc with my mil.
Nearly 5 years of pure bliss.
Def recommend it op..

I really appreciate all the posts, thank you. Very supportive and lots to think about. I suppose DH is stuck in FOG as a PP said, and I just want to be liked. But of course nothing we do changes anything - she is how she is and won’t change. Difficult to know how things will proceed. I think the posts saying things like “if you don’t want a secret told, don’t tell anyone” are missing the point a bit. This is all very sad really - we thought she had changed and she hasn’t. Can’t see how things can move on.

@TellMeWhoTheVilliansAre

I find your post quite rude in tone. I see what you are saying but it’s very hard to change learned behaviour. I was out with her because she has made a huge effort and I’m a nice person. It’s not so easy to suddenly change and stop trying to people please or get on with people. Re SIL - you don’t know the story. DH and ex broke up whenSIL was 12, they barely knew each other and ex is a shockingly bad influence, lots of cocaine and other nasty business. She also got married, has a baby Etc but still trying to meddle in DH’s family life. It’s all very weird but irrelevant as it seems to have stopped now: the only relevance was for how they behaved during the last pregnancy.

And yes, lunch clearly off!

We decided to tell both sets of parents early because:

1. i had a serious condition which was causing a lot of problems that had implications for them.
2. we had to ask my mum to come and stay with me as my husband was working away and my condition meant I needed someone with me just in case. We didn't feel it was fair for my parents to know and his not to, mil would have been devestated!
3. my bil's wedding fell at exactly 12 weeks and from 7 weeks I was very visibly pregnant so we asked whether they wanted us to let people know early or hope no one noticed on the day. They asked us to tell people early.

Before she had even congratulated us, while we were still stood in the room mil was on the phone to friends and family who we didn't know to let them know. We'd asked her to let a particular branch of the family who would be at the wedding know quietly but no one else. Our exciting announcement resulted with us stood in their kitchen for an hour while mil made phonecalls ('I'm going to just call x approved person' ring ring 'witsendis pregnant! Bye Ynotapproved person) and fil watched TV.

She wasn't told anything else, and to this day doesn't know length of labour, what actually happened during labour, exact time of birth, exact birth weight etc. As we really don't want everyone to know these personal details! When we did phone her to tell her about 5 hours after giving birth she cried because she hadn't been told we were in labour, cried because dh wouldn't tell her all the gory details inc whether I needed stitches! And had to be threatened with never seeing her grandchild if she announced on Facebook before we did. She didn't announce on Facebook but her phone was engaged when dh phoned back 5mins later to tell her when she could visit (this was about 5am so chances are not a social call)

MIL has also form for telling us about others mcs etc when she has been asked to keep it quiet, or she isn't meant to know in the first place!
Safe to say I won't be telling her anything in future!

I had the double whammy though because my boss also told everyone from colleagues to customers at 7weeks after I was advised to notify work in relation to my condition.

Sorry that was long! But phew the rant felt good😂

witsendagain

How is your relationship with her in general now after she did all of that? Do you still see her? Can you still speak to her nicely even without being able to tell her anything?

Whyyyytho,
I genuinely wasn't being rude. I understand that you gave her a chance, but NOW that you know nothing is going to change, why continue to subject yourselves to her.

Don't engage.
Don't go shopping.
Don't go to lunch.
Don't tell her anything. Due date, sex, when you're in labour.. Nothing.
If she asks if you know.. Lie.
There is no point wishing or hoping she will be different.
She won't be different.
She didn't suddenly become this way, and she won't suddenly not be this way.
Pointing out her errors won't work
Threatening to not tell her anything won't work.
Threatening to not let her see her grandchildren won't work.
The only thing that will work (for your own benefit) is to drastically limit the contact you have with her, and to expect zero from her.
You can't reason with unreasonable.

I don't mean any of that to be rude just pointing out that explaining, discussing, arguing, debating, begging, reasoning won't work. And it doesn't upset her, so you're only upsetting yourselves.

It will take time to change.. But start it today. Accept there's nothing you can do or say to make her see your point of view.

All these bosses breaking confidences - surely this falls under GDPR? Medical information is classed as sensitive so should be protected even more than other personal details. Report it.

@TellMeWhoTheVilliansAre

Sorry if I misinterpreted your last post - I will read and reread your most recent one whenever I am wavering. You are completely correct and I need to start seeing things this way, as does DH.