To invite Conservative voters to gather here

[Goddessofgrowth]

It’s ‘best of a bad bunch’ in my case but there are three threads petrified of BJ/Tories so wondered if any MN Tories would like to gather here!

Well I think both Liberal Democrats and Green Party would be more honest options

The party of the Aimee Challenor debacle and 'non men' or the party whose leader yesterday compared lesbians to men on live TV? No thanks.

He could easily have written those articles without references to letterboxes, bank robbers, grinning piccaninies, water melon smiles, tank topped bum boys but he didn’t. Because he knows his Telegraph readership well.

Ooh, you’re reminding me of just how much I like “shamelessly offensive” Boris. I do wish we could hear more from him in this election.

The party of the Aimee Challenor debacle and 'non men' or the party whose leader yesterday compared lesbians to men on live TV? No thanks

Exactly. Well said

Still, not one person has responded to the fact that they are voting for a party whose policies have targeted disabled people and killed 120,000 human beings.

You can't point to a single government that has successfully outspent preventable deaths. Public spending ebbs and flows, so to will the subset of deaths that are correlated to public spending.

And this number is entirely suspect, just FYI .

The party of the Aimee Challenor debacle and 'non men' or the party whose leader yesterday compared lesbians to men on live TV? No thanks.

Fine - I didn't come on here to push a particular party. But if you vote for a liar, then don't rely on him to do anything that he promises.

Abolishing the independent Judiciary, amending the human right act, curtailing Judicial Review, all to give more powers to the Executive and avoid scrutiny are undeniably far right policies. As are the Henry VIII clauses in the withdrawal agreement. Economic policy wise, Boris is centrist, the NI giveaway is ridiculous, but some things should be important that the economy, such as our constitution and the separation of powers.

I've registered for my postal vote as I'll be away on the 12th and I am not going to miss out. Another Conservative vote to count.

On the ‘120,000 deaths’.

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-did-austerity-kill-120000-people

In regards to Tory's single handedly killing 120000, I can only assume Diane Abbott was put in charge of doing the maths for that claim.

fullfact.org/health/austerity-120000-unnecessary-deaths/

Saker But that goes back to the point that not voting is also making a decision. We know our constituencies, we know who is on offer and we know what will likely happen if we don’t vote or if we vote for a minority party.

Saker, spoiling your ballot paper is in effect not voting.

We are going to have a political party in power. No one is going to say ‘well, X number of people have spoiled their ballot papers, hmm, this means BJ and JC must see the error of their ways.’ It doesn’t work like that.

So it does come down to which of the parties do I most agree with. At the moment, that’s the Conservative party. It doesn’t mean I agree with all their policies, but I agree with them more than I do the Greens, LDs or Labour.

• withdrawal agreement bill

I wonder if any of the excitable Labour voters on this thread realize that their hysterical, emotional rhetoric is having zero effect?

@BovaryX yes they seem to have thinned out considerably!

One of the usual suspects who's normally very quick with the 'you're so stupid' has piped down.

I wonder if any of the excitable Labour voters on this thread realize that their hysterical, emotional rhetoric is having zero effect?

Only a Tory would call concern over the deaths of over 100,000 people “hysterical”

I’m not trying to convince you. People on this thread really don’t seem to understand how the internet works...

@Deathgrip only the wilfully blind would refuse to examine the facts laid in front of them, if they could possibly ruin the narrative they have decided upon.

Nope still here. Just waiting to have a conversation with someone who isn't just giving out insults and seething over nothing. All you have done is talk down to, be rude to and attack any labour supporters trying to open up a discussion. There's no point talking to people who just want some one to be angry at.

I was going to come on here and comment how refreshing it was to find that I wasn't the only Tory voter on MN.
And that I even felt it might be safe to wave from the trenches and post something political for the first time.
Then I read on as the mud and insults started to fly - and changed my mind.

I don’t mind different view, death but I don’t believe the deaths were down to the Tory government.

I am not hysterical or emotional thanks, just an ex lawyer who normally votes Tory but is genuinely wary about the direction in which the party is heading, when it comes to legal matters. The traditional party of law and order is sadly no more, throwing money at police officers is quite frankly useless when the criminal justice system is underfunded, and I don’t like that they are trying to avoid scrutiny by attempting to make changes to Judicial a Review.

I wonder if any of the excitable Labour voters on this thread realize that their hysterical, emotional rhetoric is having zero effect?

Not completely zero - they’re making me feel even more certain about my decision to vote Conservative.

Have people seen the manifesto? From what I’ve seen so far it seems very - well, Conservative. Rather dull, with quite cautious, sensible spending pledges. I’m hoping voters will see this as a realistic and rational plan after the utter insanity of the Labour spending manifesto. Nothing dramatic, just bog standard Tory stuff really.

In regards to Tory's single handedly killing 120000, I can only assume Diane Abbott was put in charge of doing the maths for that claim.

I think you mean Philip Hammond?

Here’s the study itself
bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/11/e017722

For arguments sake let’s say they’re out by a whole 50%. That’s still 60,000 people. Is that acceptable to you?

What those “fact checks” are saying is that the mortality gap under this government might just be a coincidence and not at all related to the health and social care cuts?

Pull the other one, it’s got bells on.

And you still haven’t answered the question.

I don’t mind different view, death but I don’t believe the deaths were down to the Tory government.

So the massive increase in deaths based on mortality in the preceding years is due to what?

Have you made use of the NHS recently? How can you possibly not understand how the current restrictions on referrals for cost reasons and the difficulty in even seeing a GP is responsible for deaths?

So it does come down to which of the parties do I most agree with. At the moment, that’s the Conservative party. It doesn’t mean I agree with all their policies, but I agree with them more than I do the Greens, LDs or Labour.

I do take your point. However how do you know that the Conservatives will enact any of those policies that you agree with, when they have a leader who is making them up on the spot and will say anything to get his way or to get out of a question he can't answer? And he won't be held to account afterwards because he has created a climate in which it is okay to lie when asked a difficult question or he will just deny that he ever said something.

I also think that Boris Johnson behaves in a way other Conservative Prime Ministers haven't and that sets a precedent for politics and democracy in our country. It gives the Labour Party and Momentum an excuse to behave as they do. It means that we will move towards a society where no politician is answerable because they can just deny they ever said something, or make up a convenient fact.

I think that avoiding this is more important than anything else and I will be voting for a party I agree less with to try and keep Boris Johnson out of power.