To invite Conservative voters to gather here

[Goddessofgrowth]

It’s ‘best of a bad bunch’ in my case but there are three threads petrified of BJ/Tories so wondered if any MN Tories would like to gather here!

But it's unlikely the far left are going to get into power, wheareas the newly right Tories are the actual government and probably will be again.
Are traditional Tory voters happy with this?

I'm not a trad Tory but what choice does the electorate have? Somebody has to win, and the choice is between bad, worse or diabolical. That's not even counting the backstabbing paralysis a hung parliament will bring.

Well as been said previously it's the best option available as far as I can see. The Brexit party isn't a part of the Tory party. The far left however are now a central plank of the labour party that have pushed moderates and centrists out aggressively and have a real problem with the Jewish community, which I find abhorrent.

The difficulty with Johnson is that you can't really trust what he will become or what he really believes in. As Brexit won't be 'done' for a very long time he will have a juggling act to keep the ERG and his centre together over the next few years.

I understand the lack of choice @BuzzShitbagBobbly - I live in NI so can't even for vote for any of the three main parties.

I'm just interested in how the Tory party have morphed so far from they were in 2010 and how their traditional voters see it.

This is why those of us who won’t vote Tory will stay on this thread so misinformation can be challenged and corrected

oh joy

At least Johnson has nailed his colours to the mast and told us what he wants. Jeremy has been dithering and now even refuses to say what his intends to do. How can you support someone who won't even say / doesn't know what he is trying to achieve?

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg So it's not uninformed scaremongering to think this is what is in store for the NHS...it's what actual members of the actual Cabinet have actually committed to paper as their actual goal

I will post this yet AGAIN - Please read the actual adopted 10 year plan, not some random book which may have been written by cabinet members, but has had no leverage in policy at all.

www.longtermplan.nhs.uk/

Are you better informed now?

Thanks for that link arthur I can see that coming in very handy as a link on some of the hysteria on my FB feed.

angemorange There are many ‘traditional’ tory supporters who don’t actually see Boris as particularly ‘far right’. He is pro Brexit - as are many on the ‘left’, but he is more moderate in some of his policies than many in the recent generation of tories. He was quite vocal in his criticism of the benefit cap whilst mayor of London. Many ‘traditional’ tory voters view the idea that he wants to ‘sell the NHS to Trump’ as scaremongering.

It’s exactly the same with Labour supporters. Many don’t see Corbyn as ‘hard left’.

In the middle lies the common ground. Probably Corbyn is as ‘hard left’ in some of his policies as his critics accuse him of being, but not in others. Same for Boris (but to the right of course).

I'm just interested in how the Tory party have morphed so far from they were in 2010 and how their traditional voters see it.

I think if Tony Blair and New Labour were invented today, we'd be looking at a safe Labour victory, even with their risible non-position on Brexit - it'd just be a "Why not? Surely they can't make it any worse than Boris!" exasperated vote.

Hell, if it was the Lib Dems pre-tuition fees fiasco, they'd have a shot at it, if they had a leader who actually gave a shit about women instead of giving us all two fingers.

But not the two of them as they stand.

The difficulty with Johnson is that you can't really trust what he will become or what he really believes in

I think Johnson is a terribly lazy but terribly ambitious man. He believes in himself first and foremost and while he is unlikely to get anything done himself he will have good people in the right places and take credit for all their work. I can live with that. I think if the Tories get a majority they will shift back to center and the moderates will return.

I don't see BJ as far right at all.

I think Johnson is a terribly lazy but terribly ambitious man. He believes in himself first and foremost and while he is unlikely to get anything done himself he will have good people in the right places and take credit for all their work. I can live with that. I think if the Tories get a majority they will shift back to center and the moderates will return yes agree

I don't think Boris is far right. I would call Tommy Robinson far right, which I don't think he would argue with to be fair. But he's entitled to his opinion as am I.

deathgrip He said it because he thinks it's the truth?

As for Dearlove - he worked ofr a frim who was 'implicated'..not as you claim, Dearlove doing PR work for Gadaffi. Why wouldn't he go to work for a security firm post retirement, it's his area of expertise. Why do you think Babcock employs retired RN officers, and the NATO International Staff is comprised for the most part of retired, or senior ex military types from the 28 Allies? They have the expertise to do the job, that's all.

I don’t think Boris is instinctively hard right. That would require too much effort and ideology.

I'm not sure that the moderates will return for at least another four years - they have pretty much stood down and I'd imagine they won't be replaced by moderates.

The threat of the Brexit party has been neutralised by the move to the right and it's unlikely that will change.

Agree @BuzzShitbagBobbly - the quality of the leaders across all parties is appalling - never thought I'd feel nostalgic for some of those in the past!

Jeremy has been dithering and now even refuses to say what his intends to do

If you mean his position on Brexit, I'd say that the polls will prevent him from taking any new position which could lose more votes

They all lie and twist of course, but then they don't all have personal ratings which are quite so far through the floor

I'm just interested in how the Tory party have morphed so far from they were in 2010 and how their traditional voters see it. I didn't consider the party in 2010 to be Tory - more heirs to Blair. Cameron was a tosser.

Can we have examples of how right-wing the Tory party has become, absent of post-Brexit speculation?

As a matter of principle, any budget process that penalises those who stay in their budget is inevitably going to result in most ending in deficit.

So what you’re saying is that every Trust in England is deliberately operating a deficit. I imagine NHS England would soon detect that and sort it out.

This isn’t intended to be rude but surely someone on a six figure salary, plus private practice could afford to jump a 35 week queue for their child’s assessment?

Cameron was a tosser.

No Scary. Cameron was an arrogant tosser. He called the EU referendum, telling the EU "I will win this, you know. I'm a winner". He asked a binary question and not only didn't anticipate the "wrong" answer being given but actively prevented the Civil Service from making contingency plans for it. Then he walked off into the sunset, whistling nonchalantly, leaving his party to sort out the mess he'd made.

I'm a Conservative but I can't forgive him for that.

Can I ask traditional tory voters (who vote Conservative for all sorts of reasons) if you have no fears/qualms about the lurch to the far right of the party under the present PM?

This is not 'far right' or anything remotely like it.

Traditional Tory voters (who can remember as far back as before 2010) might well say that Cameron took the party so far to the left, in his quest to grab Blairite Labour votes, that it was barely recognisable as Conservative any more. But as a consequence the Centre moved to the left, so now anything slightly right of centre is said to be 'far right.'

Traditional Tory voters might say they are quite pleased to have something almost looking like a proper Conservative party to vote for again.

No Scary. Cameron was an arrogant tosser. He called the EU referendum, telling the EU "I will win this, you know. I'm a winner". He asked a binary question and not only didn't anticipate the "wrong" answer being given but actively prevented the Civil Service from making contingency plans for it. Then he walked off into the sunset, whistling nonchalantly, leaving his party to sort out the mess he'd made.

I have to disagree. I think that the fact that it was binary rather points to a no-deal Brexit being the baseline upon which any deal would be negotiated, and I also think that the three years since the referendum should have been more than sufficient for the Civil Service to work though the implications (thanks to TM, no dice).

But arrogant, yes. I think he never considered that leave might win.

@MarySidney - a party endorsed by Tommy Robinson? You truly aspire to that? Seriously?

fullfact.org/election-2019/labour-broadband-maintenance/

No free broadband for all then......