To invite Conservative voters to gather here

[Goddessofgrowth]

It’s ‘best of a bad bunch’ in my case but there are three threads petrified of BJ/Tories so wondered if any MN Tories would like to gather here!

Sir Richard Dearlove - this bloke? He did PR work for Gadaffi, definitely a man to trust on issues of politics.

“Sir Richard is a signatory of the neo-Conservative Henry Jackson Society principles.[11] He is also a "senior advisor" to the Monitor Group – a consultancy and private equity firm which has been implicated in undertaking PR work for Libya and Muammar Gaddafi.[12][13] In April 2013, it was announced that Dearlove joined the advisory board of Ergo, an intelligence and advisory firm.[14][15]*

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dearlove

Why do people not consider who is saying things and why?

I'm normally a Tory voter (but don't shout about it on here for obvious reasons - being called evil just one of them) but I'm really struggling this time with who to actually vote for. It matters little to be honest as my seat is a safe as houses Labour seat, but I can't not vote & I'd rather give that vote to someone who represents at least some of my views.
I can't forgive the current crop of Tories though for the absolute shambles they've made of the whole Brexit process & I'm definitely no Boris fan. Many of Corbyn's policies I find just far too hard left for my stomach - re-nationalising everything just doesn't make sense, the cost for one thing! The Lib Dems would be my normal alternative, but I can't get on board with their desire to "cancel Brexit" I can only see that making politics more divided & turning into civil unrest.
I'm at a loss & can't see a sensible option for voting this time round.

(at) EpicShitDippedBatBiscuit: I meant if you want to find a Tory-only space there are places to do so, I was not implying for one second that anyone here is a paid-up member of anything. I am sincerely sorry if I did not express myself clearly.*

* however when I have been in party-only spaces I have to say that most of them are remarkably similar in getting-on-with-the job and much less contentious. In fact, sometimes party member (of all parties) seem to hate more people in their own party of different tendencies than the adversaries! Now I must really go...

Deathgrip What were you doing in 1987? I was 21, and did things I wince at now I'm 53.

Downer, given his jobs, would have sight of things that we don't.

Look, it's in the Guardian as well, so it must be true!

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/12/alexander-downer-says-australia-should-reduce-uk-intelligence-sharing-if-corbyn-wins

Fair enough ‘EffervescentElephant’. I see what you meant now! Thanks for clearing that up.

See you later

@RunningAwaywiththeCircus I totally agree with you. My husband is in a similar situation - see also NHS consultants not working extra shifts due to the tax penalties exercised on their pension contributions etc

The NHS in its current form is no longer fit for purpose. We have to start charging those who can pay a nominal amount for some services (as we do with dentistry etc) I'm not talking about emergency care, but GP appointments & the like perhaps. The whole service needs a massive overhaul - the amount of money wasted by the NHS & the amount of inefficiency makes you want to cry!

No doubt about who I'll be voting for. BJ

How utterly refreshing to see a supportive conservative thread. I am not a conservative voter (I have voted for all parties over my life). But I am sick to death of the virtuous righteousness of, what is largely the left wing, who exhibit little tolerance towards anyone who is a 'tory' or voted to leave, and discourage genuine debate. I won't be voting for either main party this year, but respect everyone's choice to make their own decision free of harassment.

Corblimey

Bloody well said! 🙌

Cheeseypuff, I totally agree. The NHS is like a religion in the U.K. yet has so many things wrong. Free at the point of use is insane. What will finish the NHS off is obesity, so many young people are so overweight it is frightening, the face lives of diabetes, etc.

There should be a booking fee to see GPS as probably millions of hours per year are wasted as people don’t turn up for their appointments. If they really can’t afford it they turn up and are refunded.

The NHS is paying private hospitals to give obese people gastric bands which is insane, they should pay even a proportion. This is mad, people so fat they have to have major surgery, and also IVF.

A brave politician would ban takeaway food, mcDonalds, etc and all fizzy drinks for staters - won’t happen

I'm curious, does anyone actually think the Conservative party has done a good job in the last 9 years?

Is anyone going to vote for them because you think they're actually good at what they do, rather than because you think they're better than the alternatives?

I agree in principle with a nominal means tested fee for GP surgeries, it would need to be carefully managed though, as I could see the potential for more pressure on A&E because people don’t want to or can’t afford to pay. I would support a basic use payment to use A&E (refundable under certain circumstances/incident type and with means tested exemptions) however my additional concern there is the potential cost of implementing the necessary bureaucracy, and whether or not key staff could end up dragged into yet more form filling. An upgraded tiered NHS card system with a chip may work to prevent this.

Both, Danger

There have been things I’ve agreed with but there is an element of ‘best of a bad bunch’, certainly

“Is anyone going to vote for them because you think they're actually good at what they do, rather than because you think they're better than the alternatives?”

In my case? A bit of both. But I am not starry eyed over them, by any stretch of the imagination. There is always more to be done, but the opposition is so laughably appalling, that any external pressure for the Tories to improve is also sorely lacking.

What were you doing in 1987? I was 21, and did things I wince at now I'm 53.

Downer, given his jobs, would have sight of things that we don't.

Look, it's in the Guardian as well, so it must be true!

Are you missing the point on purpose or by accident?

I’m not disputing he said it. I’m questioning why he said it.

Funnily enough I didn’t get involved in far-right groups when I was 21 or 18 or 16 or any time before or since.

But I am sick to death of the virtuous righteousness of, what is largely the left wing, who exhibit little tolerance towards anyone who is a 'tory' or voted to leave, and discourage genuine debate.

The irony.

DH gets a new iPad every year that his Trust stays within budget, because they are penalised in the next FY

It would be interesting to know which Trust that is as most of them are in deficit. Perhaps DH could come up with some ways of improving his service so the money would be spent more effectively.

DangerClose, they are not particularly good.

But a Labour (or Labour-SNP alliance) would be worse

having lived a decade in the South American regimes he sees as an example, imo, With his brand of socialism everybody ends up losing. He would give us massive inflation, lots of strikes, lots of problems for the rich and poor alike.

The Tories are awful, but 5 years of labour trying to turn us into Venezuela would be so much worse

Can I ask traditional tory voters (who vote Conservative for all sorts of reasons) if you have no fears/qualms about the lurch to the far right of the party under the present PM?

Moderate MP's have left in their droves and 'One Nation' Conservatism and Cameron's modernisation project are effectively dead. Are Tory supporters happy with this direction of travel?

(Genuinely interested because it bears no resemblance to the 2010 Tory party)

@angemorange I think every action has an equal and opposite reaction. The push to the far left has seen a corresponding push further right. That being said I think the far left is bigger, louder and more accepted than the far right.

But it's unlikely the far left are going to get into power, wheareas the newly right Tories are the actual government and probably will be again.

Are traditional Tory voters happy with this? I can't imagine there has been any other reason for it but to out-UKIP/Brexit Nigel Farage & Co.
The next Tory government will be a much more extreme version of May's government. Does that not give you cause for concern?

Which parts do you class as far right?

I do not believe the lurch to the right will persist. It’s temporary to “get brexit done”. You could argue that once Corbyn steps down, the safe seats will be momentum controlled so the new leader will be in his mould, or you could argue that they’ll get a new centrist leader which could encourage the tories to stay to the right to preserve a yap, but I think it’s most likely that Johnson will re-define himself far closer to the centre.
Great post from corblimey upthread.