To feel worried about the future? (Election related)

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I’m incredibly sick of the society we’re living in. It’s bleak and horrible. When you hear about the millions of children in poverty and over 130000 people who have died as a result of austerity it makes me so sad.

My dh and I are working 4 jobs between us just to be able to save up for a house, whereas my elder siblings managed to buy in the 90’s when everything was cheaper with tiny deposits. No matter how we save, house prices keep rising and our “25%” deposit figure keeps getting bigger.

I feel deflated and feel like there’s no hope. Liars and cheats are the winners in this world. Hard working people get nothing. I’m probably feeling over emotional but the thought of another 5 years of tories fills me with terror.

Can any Tory justify the last 10 years? Or why ordinary people should vote Tory now? "Because Corbyn" is not an informed response

@mrsmaiselsmuff........the poster wasnt clear what she was talking about. She said people were voting to dismantle public services ...as austerity has already happened and ended I wanted her to clarify what she meant.
In my view there have been cuts to all the areas you mention for years and years, so not just down to a conservative government.

The idea of Labour getting in genuinely terrifies me, it would be a total disaster for our country.

Based on what? Because I’m living the reality of having two disabled children under this government and it’s fucking horrifying.

Lazypuppy

Aim for a smaller deposit? Did you see the interest ratesin the 90's??

What an out of touch comment.

Austerity led to the dismantling of public services. Austerity is still alive as an ideology. Tories need to own their shit.

@Rina84Roo I obviously didn't make it clear that I'm a Tory voter - I don't believe those things, I was pointing out that they are trotted out on every anti Tory thread even though there is no evidence for any of them.

In my view there have been cuts to all the areas you mention for years and years, so not just down to a conservative government

So you don’t remember anything before 2010? You’ve not noticed Tories justifying austerity? The declining performance of the NHS in the last ten years has passed you by?

I love the fact that people are calling out Labour and how they manage the economy, but fail to also report that Tories have given us austerity for 10 years, have not reduced the deficit at all and have suddenly found heaps of money before a general election.

Some of what they promise is great, but they just can't be trusted to implement it. The way I see it, if Lib Dems and Labour give us even half of what they are promising, it will still be heaps more than what Tories will, since they don't tend to keep their promises or promise it years down the road and hope people forget/another election comes along so they can wipe the slate clean again. My issue is affordability of housing and childcare and while Tories housing policy might be better, I doubt that a) the housing will be truly "affordable" and b) will actually get built given their previous track record.

I'm interested to see how this thread goes when people get back from work tonight. The consensus always seems to swing the other way.

Also human....
I dont understand your post. I said there have been cuts to things for years and years, so not just down to conservatives. Labour made cuts too.

If you value the public sector and other people’s welfare don’t vote Tory. The only thing that scares me is five years of Bojo.

YANBU In all the years of voting,and I have many, I have never known a situation so dire. Here we are at the crossroads between an egomaniacJohnson government leading to a economic and disastrous Brexit where we will undoubtedly crash out at the end of 2020 or a Corbyn, can’t call them Labour, government hell bent on such wide nationalisation that the mere payment of such enterprise would bankrupt us together with loans that are in the realms of fantasy to fulfill every desire irrespective of the consequences. I have nowhere to go except with the Liberals whom I have always considered wish washy but are at least wanting to halt Brexit and give the country another referendum.

Do bear in mind that the Tory austerity is true austerity in the economic sense of the word, that ‘poverty’ in the U.K. just means comparatively poor and is not a measure of true poverty (some could be genuinely living in poverty and not be include in the figures and vice Versace) and that the ‘death toll’, most of those people died as a result of their own problems. Unfortunately facts and figures in are collected very poorly in the U.K. I agree with you that the situation isn’t great at the moment but it’s no where near as bad as the figures would lead you to believe. It’s also a bit unfair to blame the Tory party for these problems which have been exacerbated by Labour mismanagement (which necessitated Tory spending cuts) and an ageing population (which places a great demand on the tax payer while also relatively reducing the number of tax payers per state dependents).

@Monsterinmyshoe but what will they take from you? Nationalised railways aren’t going to do you any good if you don’t have a job.

I feel almost clinically depressed this morning. It was reading the latest poll putting Tories at 48 seat majority. Why would ANYONE vote for more austerity, lies, Brexit suicide, years of negotiations, poor being left to use food banks, suppressing reports on Russian influence, unlawful shutdown of HOC, lies and more fucking lies. Every interview I see of Johnson he is lying, rambling, incoherent and shambolic. The MSM are biased towards him because IT IS OWNED BY THE RICH. We all so, so gullible. Labour offer a hopeful, fairer society full of hope. Why wouldn't you vote for it? I am dreading the 13th December, May book day off because I cannot face the thought of a hard right government in MY wonderful, tolerant, caring society. Or at least it was. Until fucking BREXIT.

Apparently it’s the labour manifesto that’s full of shit?

Have you seen this yet?
www.indy100.com/article/nicky-morgan-general-election-nhs-nurses-tory-manifesto-good-morning-britain-9216531

How terribly embarrassing

Why describe teaching as "naice". That beggars belief. It is a valuable job and we need teachers. Are nurses "naice" too? Or social workers? They all earn around the same in wages.

Years ago people who did not have qualifications and good jobs did not buy houses. They had council houses. I totally agree that is where this country has gone wrog. Many more people were in rented accommodation than were owner occupiers 50 years ago. Obviosoly Mrs thatcher changed that and now there is an expectation of ownership. Relating the current situation to the past is helpful because there needs to be some perspective in this. In cheaper parts of the country, 2 people with equivalent wages to that of teachers can afford a mortgage. As long as two people earn circa £35,000-50,000 between them, it is very possible to save for and own a house. I am in the South East and I do understand property prices are very high here. But to say everyone is badly off is utterly wrong.

I would greatly prefer to stay in the EU and have free movement of labour. This clearly provides us with labour where there are shortages. As for wiping my bum, I would rather be dead than this happen to me and will take every step to ensure it happens. I would also prefer it if the poster who mentioned it did not do it if it ever became necessary. Perhaps the unemployed would like these jobs?

even though there is no evidence for any of them

There's plenty of evidence. A PP gave you links but you obviously can't be bothered to read them.

Presumably you don't know anyone who is sick, disabled, unemployed etc? I really find it hard to believe you haven't noticed the massively increasing numbers of homeless.

I guess because it's not happening to you or your pals, it can't be true.

I obviously didn't make it clear that I'm a Tory voter - I don't believe those things, I was pointing out that they are trotted out on every anti Tory thread even though there is no evidence for any of them.

I literally responded to that post providing evidence for every single one of them. The least you could do is bother to read it rather than sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending it doesn’t exist.

These are people’s lives, including my own children. I for one am not at all shocked to see a Tory mocking such serious issues.

Labour made cuts too

Perhaps you’d like to substantiate that with some evidence. The NHS saw the highest level of investment since 1948 between 1997 and 2010. Not cuts. Investment.

I agree with you that the situation isn’t great at the moment but it’s no where near as bad as the figures would lead you to believe

It’s probably worse if anything.

It’s also a bit unfair to blame the Tory party for these problems which have been exacerbated by Labour mismanagement (which necessitated Tory spending cuts)

Not the global financial crash in 2007 then? Austerity was ideological and it didn’t work, the national debt has almost tripled since 2010.

;and an ageing population (which places a great demand on the tax payer while also relatively reducing the number of tax payers per state dependents)

Every pensioner I know, including me, is a taxpayer. Many of us are paying for our own healthcare now because life’s too short to sit on interminable waiting lists.

"As for wiping my bum, I would rather be dead than this happen to me and will take every step to ensure it happens. I would also prefer it if the poster who mentioned it did not do it if it ever became necessary. Perhaps the unemployed would like these jobs?"
Trying to find what this refers to up thread.

It's incredible how the JC4PM crowd have to convince themselves that anyone against Corbyn is either evil or dumb. Ironically, the complete opposite is true.

In supporting Corbyn, you are outing yourself as an insidious McDonnell-like Marxist or a Guardian reader. I'm trying to be polite.

"120,000 deaths linked to austerity!1!!" (this number constantly changes btw.. strange)
Really? Because the authors of that study literally said that there is a correlation, and that's about it. There are several other factors to consider. The idea is to make it seem like people are dropping dead in the streets while CEOs sip champagne, paid for with money that should've saved lives. Again, The Guardian spreading fake news, distorting facts, and painting a picture to fit their agenda. I'm not surprised.

Poverty
Poverty is a sexy word to throw around when you're trying to elect a communist. The reality is, "relative poverty" is a pretty pointless measurement. In theory, someone could be lifted out of poverty by others becoming less wealthy, even though their standard of living remains exactly the same. Someone is technically in poverty while earning £17,000/year in this country. Hilarious.

This is the fundamental difference between the right and the left. The right believes in personal responsibility. The left wants big government to step in and hold everyone's hand. Even though that has been shown to be a disaster in The US. They have spent something like $20 TRILLION since the 70s on "fighting poverty", all it has done is trapped huge numbers of people in poverty, serious poverty, generational poverty.

The comparisons to Nordic countries are not valid. They have small, homogeneous populations of highly skilled, highly educated people with larger tax bases.

Corbyn wants to raise the minimum wage to £10 overnight, raise corporation tax significantly, raise inheritance tax, and raise income tax on the highest earners. The idea that this won't affect 95% of normal people is ludicrous. There is a knock on effect with everything in economics. Just the obvious ones straight away, countless jobs will be wiped out and the wealthy will flee and take their money and business with them, so who is left to pay for all the "fully costed" goodies? Nobody, or everybody.

It seems like people want to "tax the rich" out of spite more than anything. Lower corporation tax = more business which = more tax revenue. It's another Guardian distortion of reality. Any lowering of corporation tax and it's "BILLION POUND GIVEAWAYS TO THE SUPER RICH" headlines all over the place.

www.statista.com/statistics/284298/total-united-kingdom-hmrc-tax-receipts/

The lower the taxes, the more attractive it is for people to do business here. The more business we have, the more tax we bring in. It's not rocket science. But it does allow "the rich" to keep more of their profits, which horrifies some people. But what do you want? The rich to have less, or to bring in more tax revenue? Because you can't have both. That is a Corbyn fairy tale.

The truth is, both sides want the same thing, but have very different ideas about how to get there. Both sides are so sure that the other is wrong, which leads to the hostility we see today.

Velveteenfruitbowl

I didn't say I would vote Labour, and I have only set foot on a train about twice in the last year. My issues were with housing and childcare, and this is where I want to see an improvement. I expect there are many people out there who rely on rail services who believe that privatisation really hasn't worked, given how extortionate rail fares are. Why do you think we won't have jobs? There are still many people in this country who are under employed or on zero hours contracts, so I'm not fooled by employment figures. We have to consider the quality of the jobs and the fact that in work poverty has increased.

I do share your fears about Labours plans to an extent, but I also fear our current government continuing with a majority far more, since they have form for lying, not delivering what they promise and completely turning a blind eye to the suffering that austerity has caused. The fact they try to turn this around using their own bungled statistics in order to try to convince us that things have got better, shows that they think we are all idiots. It makes me cringe and it's embarrassing to watch. This is why I don't trust them. I have voted for all of the main parties at least once before, so I'm not someone who is committed to one party, I'm just using my own observations and seeing that what I get told by the Tories isn't evident in real life.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we are having to choose between two parties that want to spend, but one we don't trust to follow through on their promises, and one we might like them not to because we are scared for the consequences. I guess that is pretty scary isn't it?

Someone is technically in poverty while earning £17,000/year in this country. Hilarious

Where I live, if both parents earnt this in a family of four with one child under 3 needing childcare (even part-time) they would be living in poverty. It is far below the average salary in this country. Yes, in some parts of the UK they would be just fine on that, but context, and where people live in the UK, is important.