To still be pissed off how I (and so many other women) are treated before/after birth?

[LyndzB]

How I was treated in hospital before and after the birth of my child still gets to me.

Things like...

1.when I'd had an epidural from a 3rd degree tear, I rang the nurses button for help. A nurse told me off and said I should've walked to reception as I wasn't ill. I had to explain I'd had an epidural.

1. Lying in blood stained sheets for 4 days, kept asking for fresh so I could change myself

1. Waiting 5 hours after birth for some food and water - couldn't move due to epidural

1. Being told my son was in NICU and they needed his vests. I had several bags with me and I couldn't for the life of me remember which one had vests in. I still couldn't move and the nurse got annoyed that I didn't know where they were. I'd just been told at that point he was in NICU and was worried sick.

I've read stories from women far worse than mine.

We just seem to accept it. Me included. I think we just want to get out, move on and enjoy our babies. But in the meantime nothing changes. I only see it getting worse.

The hard part is, it's difficult to criticise as I don't want to be seen criticising the nhs. I love the nhs. It's a wonderful invention. I know it's a funding issue and that nurses and doctors and porters and all staff are working so hard.

And I'm sure many women do have good experiences (as much as you can delivering a baby!)

I suppose I just want things to change for the better. I don't know where to start. And maybe it's just too much to ask for little old me!

Anyone else feel this way?

@CheeryB it's their job to deliver the baby safely and look after the woman, I hate that many people accept the 'at least the baby is okay'; yes that is, of course, extremely important, but the woman matters too. As a PP has said, head into the community and there is an abundance of support, but if you didn't have a straightforward birth you can't access it as you'll be stuck in hospital.

I can’t be arsed writing my stories - three babies and a horror show with two of them. An utter horror show. First baby I nearly died and probably could have taken action. Third ok until the horrific post natal care post section.

I completely agree with the PPs. If men are given major abdominal surgery they would never be expected to care for a newborn at the same time. I will ever forget the agony of clutching my stomach, even to try to turn, to get up to get my baby to feed her.

I don't want to RTFT because it'll anger me but I'm feeling extremely grateful that I had a good experience. Yes the HCAs were quite insistent that I got my own food when I could barely walk after EMCS but they were right, I could do more than I thought I could.

@CheeryB www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/midwifery/roles-midwifery/midwife

teach new and expectant mothers how to feed, care for and bathe their babies

www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/Explore-roles/wider-healthcare-team/roles-wider-healthcare-team/clinical-support-staff/maternity-support-worker

“helping to care for mothers and babies”

That’s their JOB FGS.

After a night of sleeping on it, I've got to come back and say that the opinion I posted was born of bravado. My births were awful, not joyful. Even so many years later, I try to avoid thinking about it. Maybe I've always thought that making light of it will make it better. It hasn't yet.

EMCS here as well, after two days in labour and failed ventouse delivery. Got told off by consultant because I’d taken them up on the offer of a GA because the epidural didn’t still me feeling the CS. It wasn’t necessary and I shouldn’t have had it. So why did they ask me then???

Also no food or drink allowed on ward after op, despite having not eaten or drunk anything for over 24 hours.

Attempted and failed breastfeeding. Nurse said DD needed to feed but she couldn’t advise me what to do. I asked if she thought I should give formula. She said it was up to me, she wasn’t allowed to say what I should do. I said ok, I’ll give her some formula. She then refused to hand any over until I said specifically which brand I wanted. I had no fucking idea what brand I wanted, it was the middle of the night, I was recovering from major surgery and I hadn’t eaten or slept for days. I get that they can’t be seen to be ‘advertising, but ffs.

Bluerussian my first so-so delivery with disinterested midwife was also Queen Elizabeth, Woolwich.

cheeryb - that was a brave admission. As I said upthread, I tried to treat my birth experience as a funny story for a few months until I had to admit to myself that I didn't find it very funny at all that I'd been humiliated and ignored while in pain.

I was left in labour for 3 hours in the maternity assessment unit waiting area as they decided without assessing me that I wasn’t in labour and was being dramatic about back pain. DD was 2 months early and went to NICU. I didn’t eat the 4 days I was in hospital as I was in Nicu and no one ever called me for lunch and dinner. I ate from the vending machine.

See after my shitty first birth, I gave birth at home and the amount of crap I got from friends, relatives and HCP about putting my health and the safety of my baby at risk was bizarre - yet when it came to it i laboured with two midwives all to myself (mainly left alone in the hospital until after 12 hours they insisted on syntocin); I gave birth in the position that was best for me, not just the preferred position of the midwife; I was then left in clean surroundings with people to look after me and food to eat.

There were some issues with lack of informed consent from the NHS midwives, but they were overworked and used to working in hospital. My next birth was with an IM and that is how it should be. Each AN appointment was an hour long. We did labour debriefings from before, she knew my birth plan and what I wanted because she'd had the time to build that relationship, she spent time with my kids - she would even ask every time if it was ok to touch me to take by BP. Labouring with the support of someone I knew and trusted was amazing. And then she came every day for a week and of course breast feeding was established without a single issue, no PND, nothing. That is how it should be for everyone - one woman one midwife with bells on. Domino care as well not just for home birth.

It's short sighted not to work towards a model like that - the cost of all of this trauma, appalling levels of PND, low BF rates, high CS rates etc etc - how is that cheaper?

My 1st experience was awful. The hospital was rammed because one born every minute was filming there. My waters broke at 34 weeks and they said because there needed to be room on nicu and labour to induce me, they were just going to send me home. I pointed out this wasnt going to happen and magically they found room for me. I was bullied into an epidural i didnt want and still to this day have no recollection of signing the paperwork. The same epidural they missed 7 times and destroyed my back. I ended up in theatre because the midwife pulled the cord after id had my son and said "oh shit" when it snapped. Que then a male dr elbow deep in my uterus ripping placenta away while i could feel every second of it because the reason i didnt want an epidural is because i have little to no reaction to anesthetic. Had to go to theatre to have removed in the end anyway. Woke up on the ward with my curtains left open and the woman next doors kids hanging off the end of my bed and trailing through my cubicle. Catheter leaked and was still left in it 4 hours later. Made them take it out and was asking to go see my son, no one ever came with a wheelchair so 12 hours later i walked myself to reception, let my family in and had to ask where my son was and which one was he because i didnt know. Oh and the blood i got on the floor was there till the day i left. Theres more its just getting too long! Chosen a better hospital for DD so hoping wont be quite as traumatic this time.

I posted up the thread and my post is so insignificant compared to many on here. I felt what happened to me I was the only one. Some posts are unbelievable. I'm due in 5 weeks so I'm not sure if it was a good or bad thing to read it all....

In a way I think good as I think I wasn't mentally prepared for the stay in hospital. Probably because of watching too much Call the Midwife! I'd fortunately never had to stay in hospital before so didn't know the system in terms of ordering meals. So even a sheet of paper as mentioned before with what happens, where to find water, where the bathroom is and where the sheets are would help. A general way of how things operate round here & who to expect in terms of baby checks and when.

A PP said maybe I should try a different hospital this time. We did consider this but we felt we know the lay of the land with this one so at least we know what to expect...and that's not much. The hospital we chose and the other one both have good and bad reports I think it depends on how busy they are and the staff. Luck of the draw.

In my case I do believe it was a case of the midwives being stretched too far as when you got their attention they were helpful...well in most cases. I got shouted at for not peeing within the allocated time after my catheter was taken out but I didn't know where the loo was, how to get there as I still couldn't walk and who would look after the baby! After 3 days of labour with no sleep or food you're not strong enough to stand up for yourself so hopefully this time round I can speak up 🤞🏻

The saddest thing is the number of posts saying this is why my LO is an only child.

Catheter leaked and was still left in it 4 hours later. Made them take it out and was asking to go see my son, no one ever came with a wheelchair so 12 hours later i walked myself to reception, let my family in and had to ask where my son was and which one was he because i didnt know. Oh and the blood i got on the floor was there till the day i left.

I mentioned this thread to DH last night as we were talking about the labour plans for this time around and he has completely sugar-coated the experience in his head the exact same experience quoted above being a part of my experience too. He's really bought into the "but you and the baby were OK!" end of it (probably partially because we're in the US now and praising the NHS like it's our job because healthcare here is what it is.) But the thing is I wasn't OK, not at the time with severe PND and not now where I am literally having panic attacks when walking through L&D it's just that we thought DS2 was our last DC and I'd never have to process that horrible birth experience any further.

DH seems to have somehow forgotten that all of this, plus everything else I've talked about, happened. Granted he wasn't there for much of it as he was looking after DS1 but he was certainly there when I complained to PALS and attended the single meeting with the ward sister.

The only difference is they mopped up the blood in a few hours. Didn't change my sheets though.

I could weep for the hideous experiences all you women have endured bringing new life into the world.

Mine wasn't a fraction as bad but still fills me with anger. I rang the hospital as directed when there was a 'show' and was told to go up. Once there, a midwife snorted with derision that I was only 1cm and what did I expect her to do? I wasn't even in active labour. I explained I'd been told to come up, older first time mum etc. Then she commented on my make up and hair blow dry saying I'd like to see how you look in twelve hours, it won't be like that. Dh escorted her from the room and made it very clear indeed she was not to come near me when in labour.

Went back in ten hours later in agony, contractions a minute apart and 8cm. Birthing pool in midwife led unit was excellent, cannot fault it but things slowed and needed an epiduaral, episiotemy and foreceps. No one brought a basin when I warned I was going to be sick so I laboured with vomit in my hair and down my nightshirt. Doctor stitching me told dh she would put an extra 'husband' stitch in and I went mental. Left to breast feed my ds for an hour whilst shaking like a lunatic from the effects of the epiduarl.
Back on the ward, drowsy and was awakend rudely by a nurse demanding to know where the baby grows and nappies were in my bags. I was so exhausted it took me a bit of time and she made it very clear she had no time for this.
Found the breakfast room on my own out of desperation, same with the bathroom. Ran a bath and got dressed and said enough, am going home. Pointless being there when their attitude was so utterly dismissive at every turn.

These stories are awful and I agree with PP about would this be the same if men gave birth.
I also think that men always seem, in my little experience, get treated better after operations, not sure why this is!
Also, I know a midwife (not friends I would emphasise!) and she is the most anti-woman person I’ve meet - is the career choice coincidence?

Isn't it odd how few actual midwives have been on this thread to counter things or even offer explanations?

Don't want to read as I still get really upset about it but I had the same.

You've had a normal delivery you can walk.

Well I actually couldn't and I was in severe pain.

Seeing my daughter was magical but then I went onto the ward and it was all downhill. I had PND in the days which followed and they missed a serious infection. I often think about that woman and wonder why she took a job caring for others when she was so heartless.

As a HCP I’m devastated by all your stories. This is not what I aspire to in any way. I don’t work in maternity but hope those you feel able to complain do. It seems there is something fundamentally wrong with post natal care in hospital and this needs to change.

Complaints take years and yield bugger all. I'm not saying they're pointless but there must be a more effective way to demand change for such a basic right as dignity in childbirth? I personally as an older woman now would never accept that treatment now. Perhaps the thinking is we are all so strung out we take what we're given. And would LOVE to see the evidence for the claim post natel women fetch their own food is avoidance clots...that's a cracker.

Doctor stitching me told dh she would put an extra 'husband' stitch in and I went mental

Oh my god I would be absolutely livid!!

@doorbellringer that's just cruel. How heartbreaking and awful to be told that

@LyndzB totally agree how awful for you.

Some really awful experiences on here. I do love and appreciate the nhs and have have massive respect for doctors and nurses but felt like I was begging to get in the door of the hospital each time and made to feel I should be suffering through pain instead of some pain relief. I did request it at the time, at least two/three times and each time palmed off by the midwives. I agree, I do think they laugh at first time mums. My first baby was 10 days overdue, asked if I could be induced after 1 week but told no. The midwife was checking if waters had gone and she asked my husband to hold a massive torch (like the ones you get in kwikfit) while she performed an internal examination. That was humiliating and she was actually laughing the cruel witch. Why couldn't she have put it on the bed or got a lamp? There was no need for dh to stand there pointing it while she got her speculum out.
Same scenario as others, I had to ring hospital up to be allowed onto labour ward, after14 hours and got turned away as not 5 cm only to come back 10 hrs later with a temperature in agony, then labour stalled, put on drip, shoulder dystocia, meconium, big baby, was pretty much incontinent for about a year. My midwifes were lovely but because she was working in a different hospital couldn't find anything in the room, including her glasses so couldn't stitch me up and had to find a registrar to do it as she couldn't see. Second time was the same, turned away from hospital as only at 4 cm then back in 2 hrs later with midwives palming me off with no pain relief. Only given gas and air as "you can have diamorphine when other midwife gets back off their tea break" then "oh no your too far along now" the fuckers. Bled all over floor even with pads on and rang buzzer and asked by cleaner "Is this your first baby? Don't you have a pad on?" Which I replied that I did, sorry it's just pouring out.

3rd baby I was desperate to be induced at 1 week overdue, midwife tried to book me in for 10 days over as was measuring big according to growth scan but hospital refused. Was induced on a ward with curtains separating me from 3 other women and their partners. Trying to keep the noise down despite being in agonising pain. Told midwife I'd been contracting all day and wanted gas and air she told me initially, yes that would be fine. Contractions ramped up immediately once induced, buzzed for gas twice told no and I'd need to wait til I was downstairs in labour ward. Buzzed again as waters broke and as she checked me and said "oh you were just suffering in silence there" for 3 hours, (seems barbaric in this age to me) started groaning and needing to push. Was wheeled in bed down to labour ward where there was hardly time to pass on my info to other midwife before I got my gas for 10 mins then gave birth to a ten pounder. I'm quite small...excruciating. Was really unwell postnatally but discharged from hospital lunchtime, about 9 hours after birth only to return daily for a week with retained products and postnatal preeclampsia after being sent up by midwife for heavy bleeding and high blood pressure. Can't help feeling this might have been avoided if I'd been given a choice about induction date. I did ask about and husband did too. Also asked repeatedly for pain relief. Friends induction stories were also really similar scenarios re pain relief, husbands did advocate them too. It does feel better ranting about it here.

Oh and the poor first time mum in bed next to me on postnatal ward was struggling to breastfeed and was told her baby had tongue tie, that there was a 12 week waiting list and it wasn't guaranteed if she'd get on that waiting list. Apparently it all depended on the if the tongue tie was deemed severe enough?! When she asked if midwife knew if she could contact anyone to arrange procedure privately she was told no. So abrupt and unhelpful. I felt so sorry for her.

the cost of all of this trauma, appalling levels of PND, low BF rates, high CS rates etc etc - how is that cheaper?

I was thinking about this and I agree. It's more expensive in the long term. And then I realised that a lot of those things get ignored as well. PND is so often dismissed as baby blues, just one of those things etc (although I do think huge improvements have been made in this area). BF is a nightmare because those who desperately want to do it don't get support, whilst those who decide it isn't for them or who physically can't do it are belittled and bullied. C sections must cost a fortune but then unlike other surgery you don't get aftercare, so that's a cost saving. Long term bladder problems, back problems, gynae problems are often ignored and normalised as just one of those things you have to expect if you've had a baby.

I think women's healthcare is lacking in a lot of ways and the postnatal ward is the most glaring example of how women's pain, physical as well as mental, just does not matter to the NHS.

Reading all this, I can only conclude, women’s lives are not considered important enough. There are no consequences and that’s why this pattern doesn’t break. There’s an inherent prejudice against Women and this needs to change. This isn’t just about funding or NHS. This is about the deep gender biases held by each and everyone of us in our daily lives. We keep propagating it in every choice we make. Medical care is a reflection of these gender biases and disparities.

My DW went through a similar story: brilliant AN care, and then once the baby was coming she sort of stopped mattering. The physical and mental anguish it caused was awful. We coughed up for private PN care with DD2 and the difference was amazing (despite the labours being similar in complication). No PTSD, no PND, and out the next day rather than stuck in hell for a week. Any time anyone I know tells me they're going to have a baby I always tell them to start saving for private PN care if possible.