To still be pissed off how I (and so many other women) are treated before/after birth?

[LyndzB]

How I was treated in hospital before and after the birth of my child still gets to me.

Things like...

1.when I'd had an epidural from a 3rd degree tear, I rang the nurses button for help. A nurse told me off and said I should've walked to reception as I wasn't ill. I had to explain I'd had an epidural.

1. Lying in blood stained sheets for 4 days, kept asking for fresh so I could change myself

1. Waiting 5 hours after birth for some food and water - couldn't move due to epidural

1. Being told my son was in NICU and they needed his vests. I had several bags with me and I couldn't for the life of me remember which one had vests in. I still couldn't move and the nurse got annoyed that I didn't know where they were. I'd just been told at that point he was in NICU and was worried sick.

I've read stories from women far worse than mine.

We just seem to accept it. Me included. I think we just want to get out, move on and enjoy our babies. But in the meantime nothing changes. I only see it getting worse.

The hard part is, it's difficult to criticise as I don't want to be seen criticising the nhs. I love the nhs. It's a wonderful invention. I know it's a funding issue and that nurses and doctors and porters and all staff are working so hard.

And I'm sure many women do have good experiences (as much as you can delivering a baby!)

I suppose I just want things to change for the better. I don't know where to start. And maybe it's just too much to ask for little old me!

Anyone else feel this way?

I read several of these types of threads before I had my baby which terrified me. I gave birth 17 days ago and made sure that I had lots of snacks, water, paracetamol with me in case I needed it. Wanted an 'easy' birth so I could therefore get out of hospital as quickly as possible. But I had an amazing standard of care from everyone at my hospital despite a challenging time (unexpectedly induced for pre-eclampsia at 38+2, emergency c-section after waters broke with meconium in them, baby's heart rate had dropped and I was only 2cm, baby taken to special care for most of the first day due to fluid in her, not released until day 3 and then re-admitted days 6-9 as my blood pressure was sky high). Every single midwife, doctor and member of the surgical team was so kind and supportive. I had help with breastfeeding in hospital and then from the community midwives, support with using a pump, no judgement for topping up with formula. Tea and toast given to me in recovery and brought to me in postnatal in the morning as I'd only managed to get out of bed to the chair (8 hours post c-section). Midwives remembering who I was when re-admitted and seeming to genuinely care. Used the buzzer a lot (had to have fluid intake/output monitored so felt like I was bothering them loads) and no complaints at all. Moved to a side room so my husband could stay and help me get some sleep during the night. Had to wait for doctors as they were busy but everyone treated me with kindness and respect, apologised that I'd had to wait but they'd been in surgery/had emergencies - as I had been one of them, I completely accepted that.

I'm so sorry that my experience hasn't been like that for everyone - you're in such a vulnerable position during and post-labour. Please do complain. Women should not be scared about giving birth because they're worried about the standard of care they'll receive. Hospitals can and should get it right. Thank you to all of the wonderful staff who supported me so well.

Yep
9 years on here
I was belittled, abused, assaulted, threatened
All over my needle phobia and breastfeeding
Its part of the reason dd is an only, I will never put myself at their mercy again

Have you heard about “enhanced recovery” after Caesarians?

“What is enhanced recovery?
Enhanced recovery following an elective caesarean section reduces the time that you spend in hospital. If all is well you will be discharged home the following day.”

Being discharged 24 hours after major abdominal surgery FFS. Just a way to save money and create more bed space.

Look at the NHS advice for appendicitis - “If the procedure is carried out promptly, you may be able to go home within 24 hours.

With open or complicated surgery (for example, if you have peritonitis) it may take up to a week before you're well enough to go home.”

After laparoscopic surgery you might be in longer than a caesarian!

Imagine a man being offered paracetamol after abdominal surgery!

@KatieKat88
Good to hear. My births were 11 and 14 years ago so hopefully its better now.

Britain gets it so bloody wrong because you don't fund the NHS properly
My experience was in Aus on our public system
Funding is part, it raises stress, low staff levels but some just have no business being in that job, dealing with women at their most vunerable. They are nasty, rude and see the woman as merely a vessel. Our needs are an inconvenience to them

Enhanced recovery following an elective caesarean section reduces the time that you spend in hospital. If all is well you will be discharged home the following day

Whilst I can't imagine it in any other scenario I was extremely grateful for this with DC2 because I hated being in after my experiences with DC1. And that's the problem - poor experiences of labour and postnatal wards are encouraging women to take risks with their health and that to be deemed OK

Who’s responsibility is it to clean the bathrooms? Cleaner, HCA or midwife? Floors covered in blood and sanitary towels...

Same goes for washing, surely immobile women after major surgery should be helped to wash like on non maternity wards?

I’m pretty sure that general ward patients aren’t told to change their own bed sheets or mop their own blood from the floor either!

I was treated terribly postnatally after DC1. The midwives treated me like a pariah for asking for eg clean sheets when my baby did a wee on them, and where I could get some water to drink. They also treated me in humiliating ways eg talking about private medical stuff loudly and in front of my family.

My experience with DC2 in a different hospital was fine but I am still bothered by how I was treated first time round.

I agree.My experience has totally stopped me from wanting any more children.

@squeekums I still feel stressed if I hear about someone's labour it takes me right back and it was nearly 6 years ago now.My ds will be an only too.

I think the pp saying some midwives take a sadistic pleasure in humiliating first time mums is right. I couldn’t do anything right from the minute I was handed over to the postnatal team. I was laughed at to face, and ignored when I was struggling. It was basically bullying. I put up with it, as I was too tired to make a fuss, but it makes me furious for other women now. There were nice midwives too but it’s the sadistic ones I remember most.

My GP told me once that if he had a pound for each of his patients whose PND can almost certainly be traced back to their experiences on the post natal ward he could have retired long ago.

I don't think it's just a funding issue, as my hospital has seemingly avoided most of the issues people talk about here, and it's just a bog standard (albeit small) hospital.

We get food brought to our bed. They ask us how much toast we want. They check in on us regularly and make sure we get something to eat when we arrive irrespective of time.

We are encouraged to use the call buzzers and they are answered promptly. They take the opportunity when we go to the loo or shower to change the bed so it's fresh but also no inconvenience to us. Sometimes the midwives bring in a big dish of hot food from home to give to women when they arrive so they don't just have to have toast.

Its not perfect. The drugs rounds are often late, and poorly timed and although you can ask for extra painkillers, that only works if you know you can ask. I had a section and my pain was better controlled at home because I could be more careful with my timings. And discharge took ages.

If some hospitals can do it, why can't all of them?

I think that some midwives are simply not very nice people. It doesn’t take much to smile and be gentle to distressed women. As a teacher, a couple of my year ones test my patience. That doesn’t mean I’m cruel to them or leave them sitting in their own urine.

I agree! I was in for a week!
After a third degree tear and major pph, blood transfusions etc.
I was spoken too horribly by a midwife and doctor during the birth. Yes I get sometimes harsh words are needed, but they knew how anxious I was, well would have done if they had read my birth plan! Must admit they did apologise when dh snapped at them how anxious I was, it's all in her notes!! 😂
I was left with blood stained bedding.
I had to keep chasing up my pain relief, I was told somebody would be in shortly but I was waiting ages.
I'd had it ticked that pain relief had been given when it had been missed.
The food, well don't get me started but I'm sure that's the same in most hospitals.

@PrincessHoneysuckle Completely understand that
I actively warn people off going to the hospital I did or if it cant be avoided tell them to have a strong, stand their ground advocate with them.

I never thought to complain, never given notes or names on paper as i just dont remember them so my best bet at helping other women is warning them of my experience.

When on the EPU, I politely told the nurse that the bathroom was dirty and needed cleaning. She looked at me like I had two heads and said she wasn’t a cleaner! The actual cleaner? Housekeeper? Domestic? mopping the unit floor shrugged and said she didn’t touch bodily fluids.

So who cleans blood/faeces etc off the floor? I left before it got cleaned.

The nurse said she was too busy to make me a cup of tea but the housekeeper did. The nurses and HCAs were sitting around the nurses station drinking tea laughing looking at wedding photos...

There was no kindness or smiles. The staff couldn’t be bothered and they were hardly overworked. I was told “your baby is fine, you can go home.” No reassurance.

Another woman had bled on the floor and the housekeeper gave her a packet of disinfectant wipes to clean it up! Would that happen on a male surgical ward?

I gave birth privately and the midwives and auxiliaries were lovely. They made it as easy as possible. Such a different experience!

My GP told me once that if he had a pound for each of his patients whose PND can almost certainly be traced back to their experiences on the post natal ward he could have retired long ago.

Mine definitely was. Was pretty relaxed when I went in. I am super sociable but I spent the whole time I was in with my curtain closed, not wanting to come out and talk to anyone. Because the only people who did talk to me barked at me. There was also the 12 week vicious circle of mastitis and soreness which could have been avoided if someone had spent half a minute correcting DD’s latch.

To be honest even a ward leaflet would have been a start. Where the clean sheets were, where to get drinking water from a tap, where I could have a shower and all those other luxuries I was unreasonable to enquire about!

I had dd1 2 months early by EMCS, she was rushed to NICU immediately after the birth. It was a terrible experience and I ended up severely dehydrated and anemic. I woke up on the ward a few hours after giving birth and asked a nurse to take me to NICU. Her first response was “you need to walk there”. When I explained that I’d had a c-section a few hours before and couldn’t walk she rolled her eyes and said “you’ll have to wait for the next shift”. I hadn’t even seen my baby at that point (which I explained to her). I had to wait for DH to come in during visiting hours before I saw her as no one would take me. NICU were phenomenal though, both in their care of DD and of me, and I think that’s why I found it difficult to say anything about the care I received during and after the birth, but I wish I had.

@squeekums I did complain,I saw the midwife manager a few weeks after birth,didn't get anywhere it was "let's agree to disagree"

but is why our partners / family etc are not advocating for us?
For those women who are staying in 7/10 days etc, saying each day was a living hell, being ignored, no pain relief, no attention or help with baby etc - where were your partners or support to pipe up and speak to the midwife, ward managers, consultants, anyone in a position of power to actually do something. If I messaged my parter in the middle of the night to say I was in agony with no pain relief and I couldn’t even pick up the baby, he’d have been at that hospital kicking up the biggest of fusses until something was resolved.
I realise not everyone has a partner or maybe even an advocate but the majority of women do have someone.
As much as things MUST change, we also need to advocate for ourselves and each other and this includes speaking up when it’s happening, not just after.

Way to go victim blaming! The solution is not to have more non-patients in the ward which is not designed for that level of occupancy, but decent care for the patients, both baby and mother. PLENTY of women do not 'have someone' who can be there all the time - they're single, from another culture, have other children their spouse needs to look after, have had to travel far to access care (many areas of centralised care and if you need any type of CLU it's a two+ hour drive to get there. Not everyone lives in a city or town, have a spouse who can drive, etc.

AND, try reading posts on this thread who did 'stand up' for their relative and were threatened with security, bans, police.

The one who should be fetching water and doing care are the staff, so that everyone gets the same, decent level of care, not just those of us lucky enough to have someone there.

I had to have DS 2 hours from home due to pre-eclampsia and my h had to look after our other 2 (my family live abroad and my MIL is in very poor health). It's very, very common for some women to have to go it alone.

If you recieve bad care you should complain through PALS. The nhs needs to know what isn't working.

I work in the NHS and I see how hard the staff work behind the scenes. I know that patienrs are scared and vulnerable and it's a huge deal to have someone be curt with them, or be left in blood stained sheets.

I've also seen/ been on the receiving end of abuse from patients and families which is horrible. No goes into a job like nursing or midwifery wanting to do a bad job. There are often circumstances beyond our control. Whilst you were waiting for food to be brought, perhaps the staff were responding to an emergency on the other side of the ward. Perhaps that emergency happened 8 hours ago and thry are now 12 hours into a long shift with no chance of a toilet break, never mind food or drink.

There is definitely something wrong in the system. You cannot cut back services year on year, when patient numbers are increasing and not expect the quality to suffer. People burn out. The service has too become 'more efficient'. That means less staffing basically. So we're a midwife may have been able to spend time listening, helping breastfeeding, ensuring you are ok, now she will be running between the patients with the highest need.

If you want a better service in the NHS than the last 10 years than don't vote conservative!!!!

If I messaged my parter in the middle of the night to say I was in agony with no pain relief and I couldn’t even pick up the baby, he’d have been at that hospital kicking up the biggest of fusses until something was resolved.

Cool. Mine was at home taking care of our 2--year-old, and going to work because as a freelancer you can't just take days off.

Making sure I'm cared for adequately by hospital staff isn't his job -- great if you have someone who can kick off for you, but maybe we should just be receiving adequate levels of care in the first place instead of having to have a third party negotiate the basic right to not lie in pain in a puddle of blood for hours.

Again, of COURSE we complained through PALS. We're very familiar with PALS at our local hospital; when MIL was dying and in a coma and we had to fly back from abroad and no one would give us any information on her condition despite my DH being her next of kin, we complained to PALS and the situation was resolved.

But that was easy. That was just getting an approval to speak to someone, not resolving an immediate situation with varying levels of requirement across two or more units. PALS did fuck-all for that apart from arrange a chat, days after the fact.

I still sat in bloodstained sheets.
I still wasn't given adequate pain relief.
I still couldn't get down to the NICU on another floor to see my baby unless I walked by myself, carrying my own catheter bag.
There still weren't any provisions in the NICU so I could care for my baby while recovering from a C-section -- just a plastic stacking chair.
I still developed PND and am dealing with trauma I'm still only discovering.

The whole argument that your partner/sister/mother should be taking care of you is ridiculous. My partner was happy to help me out of my bed to go to the toilet but he wasn't trained in how to do it without hurting me. My mother was in her mid 70s when I gave birth, she didn't have the physical strength to help me. And more importantly, when I needed them most, in the middle of the night when I was paralysed from a spinal block, they weren't allowed to be there anyway. And there's no reason why they should be there either, since who wants other people's husbands snoring in the bed beside them.

If this is all for the benefit of patients, why does the same not apply on other wards? When my mother had a hip replacement I wasn't expected to help her get mobile, or help her to the toilet. If caring for patients isn't the job of nurses (or in this case midwives) then what is their actual role?