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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask if you will be (considering) leaving the UK if Labour/Corbyn get into power?

709 replies

oliwki · 21/11/2019 18:27

If so, where will you be going?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
EntropyRising · 22/11/2019 14:58

When the NMW goes up, the benefits bill goes down, it's a travesty that full time NMW workers need benefits.
............
If your business can't afford to employ people on liveable wages or pay enough tax for decent public services, it's not a viable business.

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I'm sure it's true that there are some businesses that would just crack on with it if the NMW were £10 (they will definitely pass this onto consumers wherever they can).

Many would not.

If you want to bankrupt a lot of lower-margin business because you think they ought to pay a living wage, then you should recognise that this is going to dramatically shift the current thinking in favour of automation and hit low-skilled workers the hardest.

Of course, automation means investment, borrowing, risk - all things that people expect to be rewarded for - it's unclear what the future of investment is in the UK.

EntropyRising · 22/11/2019 15:04

Of course, automation means investment, borrowing, risk - all things that people expect to be rewarded for - it's unclear what the future of investment is in the UK.

under a Labour government.

gottagetbetter7 · 22/11/2019 15:09

Of course I would not leave - what about jobs, families, friends ie a life you have in the UK? Is it that easy just to leave and get a new life elsewhere? A PP said they would go to the US, I thought it was quite difficult to go and live in the US now, but perhaps I am wrong.

If Labour form the next govt (which I doubt they will) they will bring some good as well as the bad so you just have to get on with it.

longtimelurkerhelen · 22/11/2019 15:27

A glimmer of hope in these polls.

twitter.com/LuckyHeronSay/status/1197180814892683264

SweetSummerchild · 22/11/2019 15:30

Do you think they’d be less likely to flee the U.K. if they felt the burden was being shared with those less well off?

I don’t think business and individuals would ‘flee’ due to slightly higher taxes. As many others have said, other European countries have higher tax burdens.

I do, however, think the nationalisation plans are highly unrealistic. This is not just about water and power generation. They want to nationalise bus services and bin collections. Whilst it may sound very ‘nice’ in principle, the reality would be a bureaucratic mess and years of legal to-ing and fro-ing.

longtimelurkerhelen · 22/11/2019 15:40

Governments already own our railways, just not our government. They use the dividends to subsidise their own networks.

SinkGirl · 22/11/2019 15:41

I have spent the last month of my life literally fighting for my twins to be able to access an education - not even a decent education, but an education that can actually teach them. They are 3 years old, already diagnosed with multiple disabilities. It should be straight forward to get them what they so obviously need, that’s supposed to be the purpose of early diagnosis. Without the help they need now, their chances of ever being able to even speak, let alone learn and succeed, fall every year.

And yet this government has slashed local authority funding to the point where they’re £3bn in deficit, predicted to be £8bn in deficit in five years.

The entire system is set up to prevent disabled children from getting the help they need. Even if you manage to get an EHCP that’s useful in any way, there are thousands of children who’ve gone through all this and still don’t even have a school place. This will only worsen over the next government term if the tories get back in. I read the other day that 70% of local authorities say they won’t be able to fund any non-statutory services in five years time.

And that’s before we talk about the last three years of errors and battles I’ve endured within then NHS, including doctors missing something that may well have caused my son’s brain damage.

The battles I’ve had to endure with the DWP to get them what they need.

The appalling lack of therapy we’ve encountered, the complete absence of support for sensory behaviours that put my children’s life at risk every day, the monthly battles to access a medication that’s prescribed for him but no one wants to pay for, not to mention the monitoring supplies that protects him from experiencing a stroke, brain damage and death but that they don’t want to pay for.

And we don’t yet have to face the appalling treatment of disabled adults in this country under this government. The enormous rise in recorded hate crimes against disabled people - from about 1200 a year in 2011 to almost 9000 last year.

So no. If Labour win, I won’t be leaving the country, I’ll be breathing a sigh of relief that the party who’ve caused so much damage to my children and myself in such a short time are out on their ear, as they should be if anyone actually cared about disabled people. I don’t know if people aren’t aware or what’s happening or they just don’t care.

120,00 people dead because of health and social care cuts. Disability benefits slashed, the government paying hundreds of millions to ATOS et al to get people off disability benefits despite admitting the fraud rate was below 1%. Disabled people found fit for work despite being close to death (or actually dying). Disabled people disproportionately affected by homelessness, poverty, bedroom tax, universal credit changes etc etc.

Any of us could become disabled. Any of our children could. People need to wake up to what’s happening.

Dongdingdong · 22/11/2019 15:44

Of course I would not leave - what about jobs, families, friends ie a life you have in the UK? Is it that easy just to leave and get a new life elsewhere? A PP said they would go to the US, I thought it was quite difficult to go and live in the US now, but perhaps I am wrong.

Exactly. I assume all these posters who are confident they'll be automatically welcomed with open arms into another country of their choice have checked the criteria for emigrating there? The US in particular has very strict immigration laws.

"Just leave" seems to be the new "just move" on MN.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 22/11/2019 15:44

No. I'm too poor to afford it anyway and by the look of the manifesto that won't change. After today's developments though I might start using the men's bogs cos it'll be safer.

Dongdingdong · 22/11/2019 15:46

A glimmer of hope in these polls.

twitter.com/LuckyHeronSay/status/1197180814892683264

Interesting. Is there any chance that Corbyn could actually win this?

longtimelurkerhelen · 22/11/2019 15:57

@Dongdingdong There is always hope. To be honest I'm scared to hope.

This government should be taken to court for corporate manslaughter. The have a lot of blood on their hands. Just hope people can see what they have done to this country.

In my area, everyday on the local fb there are at least 2 burglaries PER DAY reported, at least 1 stabbing a week. This is not right. Give young people some hope and they may stop stabbing each other. I don't know what the answer is but I know it isn't another tory government.

SweetSummerchild · 22/11/2019 16:10

Is there any chance that Corbyn could actually win this?

Those ‘polls’ are about who won the ITV leaders’ debate. Corbyn should have won it theoretically as he is the leader of the opposition and has every opportunity to ‘stick one’ at the current government’s record whilst having not been in power themselves.

IMO (not that it’s worth anything) Labour can’t win a majority. They have ‘lost’ Scotland and there are too many Tory Leave seats for them to get across the line. JC may end up as PM of a minority government, but I don’t think he’d be able to get many of Labour’s more extreme policies through Parliament if that’s the case.

If Labour end up in a minority government they’d be better off accepting they need to drop some of their manifesto ‘pledges’ to save face. That may mean ditching Corbyn/McDonnell as well and becoming more moderate in their policies, but I can’t see this happening.

Either way, there are uncertain times ahead. Whether the country is ‘better’ or not under the next government will be up to history to decide. To quote Tyrion Lannister, “Ask me in 10 years”.

longtimelurkerhelen · 22/11/2019 16:34

No government ever does all it promises in the lead up to an election, but they should aim high.

Spamantha · 22/11/2019 16:47

I agree that there's no chance of Labour winning a majority. If they do end up able to form a government, it'll be a coalition or minority. They'd need a majority to have any prospect of passing a lot of their manifesto promises but, absent that, they will have to compromise with a more centrist party.

MrsDoylesTea · 22/11/2019 16:49

To all those saying "It's only an extra £8.80 a week for those earning £80k", think about this. With one of their pledges alone - free broadband for example, the average cost is probably £25 per month. Let's pretend that the state could run it more efficiently (it can't, but let;s give the benefit of the doubt) and bring the cost down to £16 per month.

That means that the tax brought in from that £80 (~£34 per month) only covers that rich person's broadband which will be free and one other person.

How many people are there in that category of earning £80k? Simply nowhere near enough to cover even that one pledge... It would need significant borrowing just to offer free broadband - never mind all the land of milk and honey things they have promised!

This is why Corbyn and McDonnell are so dangerous - they are economically illiterate, and I'm both horrified and depressed that so many people on these pages either can't or choose not to see through their lies

longtimelurkerhelen · 22/11/2019 16:54

There is always a chance, look at the trump/clinton election, they were saying she had a 95% chance of winning on the morning of the election.

We all know how that turned out.

DangerClose · 22/11/2019 16:58

just about every serious economist has pointed out that it lacks economic credibility

Do you have any links to them saying this (from unbiased sources)? I'd like to read the opinion of an expert or two who don't have specific agendas.

SinkGirl · 22/11/2019 17:01

MrsDoyle you’ve plucked some random figures from thin air and think you have a better grasp of the funding than rhose who’ve written it, and the economists who’ve reviewed it?

Why would it cost £16 a month to deliver full fibre broadband to each property? Where do you get that figure from?

Of course the state could fund it more efficiently. If you know so much about this you’ll know that only 7% of the UK currently has full fibre, compared to over 90% in other countries which negatively impacts both businesses and wider digital inequality.

The weekly figure you quote is for someone on £80k IIRC - the top 5% of incomes rises steeply from there.

The tories have pledged £5bn to subsidise private broadband infrastructure. Not everyone will have it, and it would cost more than a nationalised network due to duplication of service. Between that duplication of service and profits needed, why would that be more efficient than a nationalised network?

YouJustDoYou · 22/11/2019 17:03

Seeing as any government cannot be trusted for any promise, IF they start taking humongous amounts extra more than hinted at - absolutely we're gone.

Symptomless · 22/11/2019 17:04

I haven't left yet, despite the rapid decline of uk in the past 10 years. If it was just up to me, we would already be living somewhere else with higher taxes and more security. But I have a partner and family to compromise with so here I am and here I'll stay I'm guessing..

YouJustDoYou · 22/11/2019 17:06

There is so, so much more to Labour's pledges than "just" that extra in tax. What about the extra school places for the private school kids they will be forcing out with their private school extra taxes? Will they be buildingextra schools? Because they don't mention they will. And so on.

DangerClose · 22/11/2019 17:06

This is why Corbyn and McDonnell are so dangerous - they are economically illiterate, and I'm both horrified and depressed that so many people on these pages either can't or choose not to see through their lies

How can you make such bold statements when you clearly haven't even read the manifesto? Your whole post is irrelevant because they have never said they're planning on funding everything with the higher tax rate on people earning over 80k! It is expected to raise 5.6bn of the 83bn they say is needed.

In case you're wondering, the rest comes from myriad sources such as a reversal on inheritance tax cuts, a tax on second homes, a financial transactions tax, VAT on private schools, etc.

SallyWD · 22/11/2019 17:15

Of course not. I'd be absolutely delighted!

FreyaMountstuart · 22/11/2019 17:17

No - I’ll be returning to celebrate!

MrsDoylesTea · 22/11/2019 17:20

Sinkgirl - I was taking average cost of broadband to a household. However, you're right - given it's provision of fibre, the cost will be much much more (and yes, I do know a bit about it thanks!) in infrastructure and provisioning. So I'm happy to say that I was wrong - the cost would be even more astronomical and leave an even bigger hole in Labour's 'sums'.

The sensible thing is not to do fibre to every home - it's not needed - copper can give significant broadband speeds to domestic properties plus even worse - with the timeframes Labour suggest to roll this out a much more sensible option will likely be 5G or 6G.

That's what is so galling about Labour - a ridiculously unaffordable pledge to make people think they are getting something for free when in reality if you leave it to the markets we will have more options and better solutions...