to ask if you will be (considering) leaving the UK if Labour/Corbyn get into power?

[oliwki]

If so, where will you be going?

Nope, though I could be tempted to move (if possible) if we do crash out with no deal, I have to say.

Honestly if either Boris or Corbyn gets in I am going to dig a big hole and refuse to come out.

“The problem with socialism is that one day you run out of other people’s money.”

It will be the tip of the iceberg. People and companies won’t just roll over and take it.

And then when he gets voted out, barking 1970’s dinosaur ideas half in place, the austerity that has to follow his orgy of spending will make the current lot look benign.

I think people would pay more tax more happily if they were sure it would go on the right things. So let’s say you’re a higher rate tax payer, as I am. I get told I have to pay an extra X% in tax more than I do now, but I can choose where it goes by ticking a box, eg NHS, education - no problem. I’d do that willingly. What I would resent is paying for what I think are bonkers ideas.

I know it can’t ever happen, but somehow I think it would raise a lot more money for the NHS etc if it did!

I left for Germany 5 years ago. I would love to move back.

I suspect more businesses will leave when we crash out of the EU in 13 months time then under a Labour government.

This is the great irony. That those people claiming they’ll take their businesses away from a Labour government presumably want the Conservatives in power - whose leader said “fuck business”.

No, I love my home. My family is here.

If the impossible happens and he gets elected, I will hunker down, cut my spending to the minimum and wait for him to be ousted by the majority of same and sensible Labour MPs.

So can I ask posters who seem to think putting our tax rates up to similar levels as the rest of the EU’s major economies is some crazy communist idea how we address the problem of growing inequality? It says something when the UN label poverty here as ‘systematic’ and ‘tragic’. NHS is performing the worst ever. More and more Children are growing up in abject poverty. Some schools can only open for 4 days per week. All whilst the wealthiest have become wealthier. This is happening and you can’t deny it. We’ve had years of the austerity programme yet we’re still spending masses so tell us what you’d like to see in a manifesto to address these issues. There must be some common ground here.

Still not entirely following you Oliversmummy. Sorry.

My summary - You left home at 16. Presumably only had the choice of low skill low pay work. It left you in the red each month. You went on benefits and was better off (not by much but enough). All this under a Labour government.

At some point you've made money and feel that you should not have benefited from state support as you did at 16. in the same circumstances now would your 16 year old homeless girl fare better under Labour or the Conservatives? Which is right in your mind?

I'm off out now but will pop back later (didn't want you to think I was plopping!).

What happens if high earners and companies DO Leave?? What is PLAN B?

Err.. tax the companies that spring up to offer the goods and services of those that have left. And tax the individuals emigrating into Britain to do the well paying jobs of those who have just quit to move to the USA.

The implication here is that the newcomers will either invest/work at lower margins (i.e. less tax revenue) or that they have some kind of competitive advantage over their predecessor, correct?

The problem with the latter is that the UK economy would overnight become less agile and forgiving of companies that fail. They would have a higher threshold of obligation to employees, face higher minimum wages, and be less able to attract investment because of higher corporation tax & abolition of tax relief on R&D.

I have a lot of sympathy for the view that life needs to be better for employees, I could write a long essay on this but it would not be interesting - but ultimately I think I'd rather see this sorted out via tax credit top ups than hampering private enterprise.

To repeat myself, a lot of the people on this thread argue that the UK economy as a whole won't survive Brexit (8% of our GDP is EU trade) should the UK exit the common market. But they'll happily submit to a 25% increase in minimum wages, having 10% of their equity co-opted by the state, taxes on transactions in financial services, and an overarching backdrop of nationalisation?

@EntropyRising so you think that tax payers should prop up private enterprises in the form of tax credits while the shareholders/owners/directors take the profit?
And the point about people being willing to choose the costs labour spending pledges vs costs of Brexit is that we all know its not the rich who will carry this burden, businesses will relocate (yes Dyson you absolute hypocrite) and normal working people will be left jobless.

This is the great irony. That those people claiming they’ll take their businesses away from a Labour government presumably want the Conservatives in power - whose leader said “fuck business”

If he meant 'fuck the CBI' then I agree.

@EntropyRising so you think that tax payers should prop up private enterprises in the form of tax credits while the shareholders/owners/directors take the profit?

It's an imperfect solution (understatement) but yes.

I don't have a philosophical gripe with a higher NMW but I think it would create more problems than it would solve.

I assume if he meant “Fuck the CBI” he’d have said that. As it is he said “Fuck business”. Are you saying he was lying again?

No

Notonthestairs

What I was trying to say was if I hadn’t had so many deductions from my salary I would have still been in work and felt like going to work was the right thing to do.

The point being was why would I go to work so my taxes would support the “poor and unemployed” when Labours policies meant they were better off than me.

A case of if you can’t beat them join them.

Every time there is a Labour government Even under New Labour where on the surface things seemed to be easier for the country. I was putting in more hours and working really hard doing a quite physical job (even with a slipped disc and in great pain) things just didn’t seem to go right.

Since the Conservatives have been in things just seem to run a lot smoother.

I can’t even say it is about tax or a particular policy.

So can I ask posters who seem to think putting our tax rates up to similar levels as the rest of the EU’s major economies is some crazy communist idea how we address the problem of growing inequality?

I think taxes need to go up across the board and our family would be willing to pay for them for better public services and a more equal society.

I think NMW should go up to £10 an hour, but not for 16-18 year olds. I do not agree with abolishing university tuition fees.

I do not agree in the vast nationalisation plan Labour is putting forward. Whilst I think the regulators of privatised utilities are woefully inadequate and not fit for purpose, I see no benefit in renationalising them for anyone other than the trade unions. Labour are trying to convince the voting public that ‘productivity improvements’ will enable a 32 hour working week within a decade. At the same time they want to massively increase the power of the trade unions. Do people really not see that there’s a bit of a conflict there?

Labour are proposing that all this can be achieved by only taxing the ‘very rich’. It just doesn’t add up. The financial transaction tax alone is going to affect anyone with a modest private pension, and that’s before the 10% grab on equities.

Lots of their policies just don’t add up.

So can I ask posters who seem to think putting our tax rates up to similar levels as the rest of the EU’s major economies is some crazy communist idea how we address the problem of growing inequality?

Taxes need to go up for everyone. Not just the mythical 'rich'

Of course if current Labour were in power for more than 5 years, they'd have less and less 'rich' and big companies based here, so they will run out of cash.

Of course if current Labour were in power for more than 5 years, they'd have less and less 'rich' and big companies based here, so they will run out of cash.

How do you work that one out? If our tax rates were in line with the rest of Europe, where would they go to be better off?

I can't see Labour, in its current form, encouraging anyone to earn over 80k. Apart from the inner circle, getting backhanders from awarding lucrative govt contracts.

So can I ask posters who seem to think putting our tax rates up to similar levels as the rest of the EU’s major economies is some crazy communist idea how we address the problem of growing inequality?

As a PP said, those european countries tax everyone more. Also they don't have such a generous benefit system, cost of living generally higher. That's before we get into Corbyn's nationalisation plans.

It's funny watching the labour faithful do 180 on listening to economists when it comes to Labours manifesto, just about every serious economist has pointed out that it lacks economic credibility. The proposed tax increases won't generate anywhere near the level of income that Labour are claiming and the costings are at best overly optimistic and at worst outright lies.

It's just populist politics.

But that’s Corbyn all over, Trewser. A race to the bottom.

I never ever thought I’d say come back New Labour (minus the gurning war criminal), but I do wonder where we’d be if David Miliband had beaten Ed all those years ago.

When the NMW goes up, the benefits bill goes down, it's a travesty that full time NMW workers need benefits.
Most benefits are currently claimed by households in work, because Tory policy currently subsidises employers' low wages.
My household will pay more tax under a Labour government, but that would be more than offset by the universal benefits in the manifesto, as I use broadband, public transport, the NHS and the education system.
If your business can't afford to employ people on liveable wages or pay enough tax for decent public services, it's not a viable business.

Thank you sweetsummerchild for answering. I actually agree that tuition fees don’t need to be abolished. I think the current system is pretty fair. It’s seems we all agree taxes somewhere need to go up to address inequality. But even if everyone had an increase that would still have to include businesses and high net worth individuals. Do you think they’d be less likely to flee the U.K. if they felt the burden was being shared with those less well off? Seems a bit odd that we wouldn’t try taxing those who can afford it more easily first. I don’t believe a labour government would deliver on every one of their promises (I don’t think any party ever does) but I sure as hell don’t believe a Tory government will even try to tackle the grinding poverty, deaths caused by austerity and destruction of the NHS that this country has become known for. I’m ashamed of the society we’ve become.

where are the 120,00 [at least] preventable deaths coming from long not being funny but i'm curious as to this as i've heard it before on here but don't understand how these numbers come about.

From this study right here:
bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/11/e017722

Directly linked to health and social care cuts

just about every serious economist has pointed out that it lacks economic credibility

You mean every serious economist willing to shill for the tories in the Mail, Telegraph and Express, right?