to think Scotland should be able to decide?

[KnowBetterDoBetter]

I thought Jeremy absolutely smashed the debate, but both of them seemed to be absolutely resolute that it would be awful to give the Scottish people a independence referendum. I see this all over the media, too.

It would be so so sad if Scotland left the union - half my family are Scottish, and I'd be absolutely gutted.

But surely if the Scottish people want to leave, they should be free to. We don't (or shouldn't) live in a national dictatorship governed by London.

If Scotland were a fed up wife, dreaming of leaving her husband (the rest of the UK), it'd be wrong to force her to stay, right? Even if her husband would be gutted?

Am I missing something?

@geekone
Really go and educate yourself, your comments are astounding ignorant.

I'm Scottish. I don't believe there should be another referendum, Scotland has already decided,

Just like brexit, you can't just keep having referendums till you get the result you want.

I'd like to see Scotland given the option for devo-max first but that will never happen so independence it is.

We need change, all of the UK does actually, our current political system is badly out-dated and doesn't work for the majority.

The once in a lifetime referendum was in 2014. What's difficult to understand?

I thought Jeremy absolutely smashed the debate That was your real message wasn't it. No he didn't
I can't stand this patronising shite about giving Scotland another referendum. Independence for Scotland would be economic suicide.

It really wouldn't

Just like brexit, you can't just keep having referendums till you get the result you want.

Do you feel the same way about general elections?

The people of Scotland vote in a majority of indy supporting MSPs every time. If people in Scotland don't want independence they really should stop voting for the party that is explicitly for independence.

Sturgeon will never stop going for it unless someone ousts her. She has said she will see Scotland independent in her life time. So we are stuck voting forever until we eventually relent and give her what she wants. Sounds so democratic right?

Maybe she should concentrate on the NHS, schools etc and get those right first. She can't get those right, how can she manage a country completely alone?

My nightmare scenario is Brexit no deal, Scottish independence and Labour in power in Scotland.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme Please read this

Maybe Scotland could have a referendum on whether to have a second referendum?

Sturgeon will never stop going for it unless someone ousts her. Sounds so democratic right?

So you are saying the results of elections in Scotland should be ignored? So democratic right?

.

It’s not a union if parties within it cannot choose to leave. Anyone opposed to Scotland being able to decide whenever it sees if it not a democrat and is of questionable character.

The sight of those two discussing what Scotland can and cannot do will only help to increase support here, already at 50%.

So you are saying the results of elections in Scotland should be ignored? So democratic right?

Did you read what I said? Never said we should ignore the votes of Scotland. Scotland voted no for independence, it has so far been listened to.

If you're talking about voting no for brexit, you do realise Scotland is part of the bigger country, the UK, that voted as a majority Yes? What about all of the other constituencies that voted no? Are you standing up for their voices not being listened to? It's amazing how Scottish people think their voice is most important. It's not. It's as important as everyone else. We voted as a UNITED KINGDOM, not Scotland vs England and England won. Other areas voted no, they didn't win. Yes won. So democracy is so far being followed, unless the new government rejects it or does another vote etc. You voted no, in a democracy. You lost. It happens. You voted yes for independence, in a democracy. You lost. Its that simple.

Did you read what I said

Yes, you said that Sturgeon will keep pushing for independence until she is voted out. You then said you are stuck voting until we get independence. You then said this wasn't democratic.

If you're talking about voting no for brexit, you do realise Scotland is part of the bigger country, the UK, that voted as a majority Yes? What about all of the other constituencies that voted no?

None of those constituencies were in Scotland. The UK is apparently a union of equals, but where every is decided by the largest "partner".

You voted yes for independence, in a democracy. You lost. Its that simple.

So you are against elections? Once an electorate voted for something they should never be allowed to vote again, even if something significant changes?

Before the referendum in Scotland we were promised near that Scotland would remain in the EU if we voted to remain in the UK. There was also the infamous "vow" where promises were made by all leaders (and not kept.).

It's amazing how Scottish people think their voice is most important. It's not. It's as important as everyone else

It's amazing how despite the equal importance the devolved Nations were excluded from Brexit negotiations.

The last referendum was a "once in a generation" vote
David Cameron pledged in 2013, if he got an overall majority in the next general election- there would be an EU referendum , so it was known at the time.
The separatists have been banging on about another referendum since the day after the original result , well before Brexit
The last referendum was extremely divisive , and paralysed the country , very little else was done or discussed ( much like Brexit)
The Nationalists may shout loudly and wave their flags , but this does not mean translate to the majority of Scots wanting a referendum in 2020-
I thinks the Scottish government should sort out problems with education & NHS first- both devolved powers and both with significant problems
The currency and border issues also need addressed -
Plus a full economic analysis into how an independent Scottish economy would fare carried out by a panel of independent economists and business experts

The last referendum was a "once in a generation" vote

This was a figure of speech used in an interview. It was also said that material changes in circumstances should trigger another referendum.

The separatists have been banging on about another referendum since the day after the original result

It's sad isn't it. If people lose a vote they should just accept the result and stop campaigning. General elections are just expensive and divisive and disruptive.

this does not mean translate to the majority of Scots wanting a referendum in 2020

And yet somehow, in a government that uses proportional representation, there is a majority support for independence. How can this be?

I thinks the Scottish government should sort out problems with education & NHS first- both devolved powers and both with significant problems

And both significantly better than in England... Additionally, as I'm sure you are aware, the NHS and education don't operate in a vacuum. They are heavily impacted by things like poverty for which the Scottish government doesn't have all of the powers to address.

^The currency and border issues also need addressed -
Plus a full economic analysis into how an independent Scottish economy would fare carried out by a panel of independent economists and business experts^

What is it about Scotland of all of the countries of the world that makes it uniquely unable to manages its own affairs?

It's not democratic. She just wants to hear the word yes. She doesn't care what we actually think.

Listen you've clearly swallowed the snp handbook on how England are evil, so there is little point in arguing with you. But just don't come back here crying and complaining that you believed them if we go independent and everything goes to pot. Because it will. They are lying themselves. All politicians lie, it's what they do. I dunno why anyone believed them when they said brexit wouldn't happen, of course it would have. More people than there are in scotland wanted it to happen. Can't ignore the majority because of what one 'partner' wants.

If we go independent, then be prepared for the worst to happen. It will eventually. I don't trust politicians hence why I voted no to both. I don't believe their proposed outcomes or what they think the future will hold. They will no doubt be wrong. I'd rather stay with what I know unless they could prove a different way is better. But they can't. You believe them if you want.

Just like brexit, you can't just keep having referendums till you get the result you want

This with bells

ItsAllGoingToBeFine
"And yet somehow, in a government that uses proportional representation, there is a majority support for independence. How can this be?"
However -The majority of Scots voters did not vote in a majority for SNP / Greens in either the last Holyrood election or general election (about 47%)- - The majority voted for parties who wanted Scotland to stay in the UK
I am not saying Scotland is incapable of managing its own affairs - but surely after the Brexit shenanigans it is vitally important for impartial full facts to be available to Scots voters in order to make up their minds

I live in Scotland, my husband is Scottish and we voted no to independence and will do so again. I cannot get my head round the fact of NS wanting independence from Westminster, but then handing control to the EU. Also can anyone enlighten me, as I have not heard anything about it - what are her proposals for the Scotland - England border, and will Scotland take the Euro as it could not keep the £?

Just like brexit, you can't just keep having referendums till you get the result you want

Why not under a democracy? As long of the people of Scotland keep voting a party into government that want independence there is no reason why there can't be another indy ref.

My family are all Scots but I live in England.

1. @Caledoniahasmyheartforever London voted Remain too but we are still the ones who are going to end up paying the biggest price for what the rest of England voted for and don’t get another choice, why should anyone else?

1. To all those complaining about Scots never voting Tory but getting a Tory government, if Sturgeon and formerly Salmond hadnt had their incessant independence agenda for so long then they’d have been invited into government years ago and could have influenced the agenda from the inside. The only reason no one in Westminster will work with them is because their demand in exchange for cooperation is indepdence, following which whoever they work with would lose their support. Go figure.

1. I don’t think NS actually wants independence. I think her ultimate goal is to squeeze as much money as she can out of Westminster like the DUP did and not have to take any actual responsibility.

1. She was banging on about Scotland being the wealthiest country on the face of the planet last night, anyone any idea which planet??

I'm [English and] certain that retaining the Union would overwhelmingly be best for all parties.

Given their cost & divisiveness I also fimly believe that independence refereda should genuinely be a 'once in a generation' thing.

But I'd reluctantly accept a hard Brexit, maybe any Brexit, as a force majeure type thing probably justifying another referendum.

Just like brexit, you can't just keep having referendums till you get the result you want

Completely agree! Otherwise do we have referendum's every year???? In, out, in, out we shake it all about.