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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aibu nightmare child in dd class

265 replies

mussymummy · 16/11/2019 22:47

So will try to keep this brief, dd was at nursery for 3 years with child, let's call him Bob who physically hurt her and other kids from age 2 when he bit another boy in the face. Nursery did not do enough (they have admitted this since) and the mother keeps making excuses for her darling Bob.
So now they are both in P1 in same class, I did request a class change for my dd but did not happen. He is a nightmare, punching kids in face, at afterschool club he has bitten and kicked one of the workers, his mum still refuses to accept responsibility for him and makes excuses
So this week he told my 5yo dd he was goin to kill her mummy and daddy as we slept. Cue tears, my heart breaking as my dd made me lock every window and door in house as she followed me doing it. She woke 3 times.that night (always sleeps right through) convinced child of chucky was trying to break in.
Ladies what do I do? The mother (aged in 40's with 2 older teenage ds) refuses to do anything about his behaviour because she has already raised 2 sons and there is nowt wrong with them.
I am struggling to know how to handle this. I spoke to the school who told me they have a behaviour plan in place for Bob and the last time I contacted the mum directly it did not go well (when we thought dd had a broken nose after Bob smacked her in face with toy car, there was lots of blood)
Any advice on next steps / how I handle this would be much appreciated

OP posts:
SuperMumTum · 17/11/2019 08:24

I did not suggest going to the police to have the child dealt with directly. I suggested going to the police because the OPs child is a victim of crime and the school are not addressing it properly. I would not have suggested it if it was a one off playground injury either.

If your child was seriously injured by a dog in the street you would expect the police to punish the owner.

Teachermaths · 17/11/2019 08:29

@marshmallowss according to the guidelines it shouldn't take that long. But in reality gathering the evidence and going through the process does take that long in our LA. Sorry I wasn't clear that some areas are quicker.

Wheredidigowrongggggg · 17/11/2019 08:30

I know you’re Scotland but there will be similar processes:

  1. Complain - follow school’s complaint process.
  2. Escalate to governors if that doesn’t resolve.
  3. Approach MP/Media if nothing is done.

Violence against our children cannot be justified under the excuse of SEN. Children who are violent need to be in a safe Environment for everyone and that is not a mainstream school with budget cuts and skeleton staff.

Shout as loud as you possibly can, to the people who can change things.

I also second that this child needs intervention. Threatening to kill someone’s parents at age 5 would get a SS referral here. Massive alarm bells about mental state/abuse/neglect (watching/access to inappropriate material) and poor parenting. Don’t wait another minute, for his sake too.

Ibiza2015 · 17/11/2019 08:30

I am a teacher. Remove your child. Take her to another school. This violent child’s right to an education is seen as more important by the system than your daughter’s right to be safe from harm.

Why should OPs DD be forced to leave her school and her friends? This is so sad for both children, both are clearly being let down.

RockinHippy · 17/11/2019 08:33

Super lots of people are suggesting the police, so my comment wasn't just aimed at you, but your explanation makes not a jot of difference, tge police can do nothing as he's under 10 & tbh, even over 10 they don't exactly jump at sorting it out either. There's no point in ringing the police for a 5 yo. You need to go through the education system

marshmallowss · 17/11/2019 08:33

@Teachermaths true, I guess it's different within each LA. I was just speaking from personal experience and tbh hoping- no child should have to struggle for 2 years to get an EHCP and his classmates shouldn't have to suffer for 2 years at his expense.

Sallycinammonbangsthedruminthe · 17/11/2019 08:34

It appears the schools duty of care is non existant ...to both children.To OPs daughter and the other child.They need calling out on it and they should follow the correct safeguarding procedures.They are hoping you go away OP ...don;t.

FlamingoAndJohn · 17/11/2019 08:34

We have a Bob in my school.
He hasn’t hurt other children but he has hurt staff and destroyed classrooms.

Yes he could be excluded but then we would just be sending him home to a house full of substance abusers and a violent father. What good would that do? Also he would learn that to go home all he needs to do is kick off. Yes the other children would be safe but it’s not going to help him. So he gets removed from the class.

LadyAllegraImelda · 17/11/2019 08:34

Definitely escalate this as other posters have said, quoting safeguarding, policy and legal responsibilities, I can't see how they could still refuse to move her classes. I'd even threaten to take it to the media. I'd demand they contact me every time she had been assaulted immediately then I'd go and collect her (I'm assuming you are a SAHM here!) If all else fails I'd definitely move schools, I couldn't bear to send my child in to be assaulted each day.

Mammatino · 17/11/2019 08:39

I'm really sorry for you and DD, you must be at your wits end and absolutely terrified of sending her to school. Based on a couple of written lines I can't diagnose this child, I couldn't anyway I'm not a doctor. Practically keep a diary with written and photographic evidence of incidents, anyone who was present and what action (you are aware of) that was taken. Log all your contact with school and report it to everyone you can think of. His behaviour could be one of a zillion things and I think people are suggesting police because of course they can't arrest a 5 year old but the family might be known and this child might be at risk. Ultimately you do whatever you need to keep your DD safe almost broken noses and gouged eyes are appalling and frightening. Good luck.

merrymouse · 17/11/2019 08:40

Agree completely with everything WalkofShame has said.

The school have a legal duty of care and they are the people who need to keep your daughter safe. Whether or not the child's mother is doing a bad job, you fundamentally have no control over her parenting.

merrymouse · 17/11/2019 08:42

I am a teacher. Remove your child. Take her to another school. This violent child’s right to an education is seen as more important by the system than your daughter’s right to be safe from harm.

I find this remark very depressing. Both children are just 5 years old. They both have rights.

Wheredidigowrongggggg · 17/11/2019 08:46

Merrymouse - you clearly haven’t worked at the front line. A child, even one with SEN, can kick his 121 square in the face and still not be legally excluded. It is absolutely outrageous. I fully support integration but children with violent tendencies should not be educated in mainstream schools who simply don’t have the resources to protect their staff or the other children.

Potatoesx12 · 17/11/2019 08:46

If you just remove your DD though, who is to say the next school won't be the same? No guarantee.

nevernotstruggling · 17/11/2019 08:50

I had this with dd2 in year 1. I complained 5 times before the other child was one to one supervised by a ta at all times.

Further to the ta the little boy was also given a strict behaviour plan where he could earn nice things if he behaved well like dinosaurs and lego time. This was very effective and dd2 went from being very frightened to describing him as her friend. He left to attend another school (not sen just family moved away) and dd2 was really sad and worried he was sad too. All the children made a book of pictures together for him.

I reflect that this was handled quite well in the end but it made me hyper vigilant about both my dds being hurt by other children and quite paranoid

SnugglySnerd · 17/11/2019 08:52

I can't imagine a 5 yo coming out with "killing your parents as they sleep" unless he had been exposed to some really inappropriate films/computer games/behaviour at home so I actually think there are safeguarding concerns for him as well as your little girl. I would perhaps point this out to the school.

EsselGruntFuttock · 17/11/2019 08:52

I find this remark very depressing. Both children are just 5 years old. They both have rights.

One does not have the right to be assaulting other children or staff, the other children have the right to be educated in a safe environment. I completely agree with @Wheredidigowrongggggg

WalkofShame · 17/11/2019 08:53

OP are you in Scotland? I can’t see where you’ve said this but it seems to be being taken as fact. Obviously if you are, a lot of the advice on here is not relevant

WalkofShame · 17/11/2019 08:55

One does not have the right to be assaulting other children or staff, the other children have the right to be educated in a safe environment

Both kids have the right to have their educational needs met. www.csie.org.uk/inclusion/unesco-salamanca.shtml

Wheredidigowrongggggg · 17/11/2019 08:56

P1 is the Scottish equivalent of reception class. There will be similar structures for complaint and progression in Scottish schools.

CareOfPunts · 17/11/2019 08:56

Why should OPs DD be forced to leave her school and her friends? This is so sad for both children, both are clearly being let down.

Which is why she should move ge now after she’d only been there a few months and friendships won’t be that established. It’s a shame she has to consider it but I can’t imagine the current scholll will become better st dealing with it

QuintessentialShadow · 17/11/2019 08:58

OP, it is tough for you, and tough for your dd. And probably also tough for Bob. Dont contact mum. Dont be angry with her. She probably needs the friendships of school mums more than she needs judgement. Very few parents will admit to others that their child has a problem.

We had 3 Bobs in first grade a couple of years ago. It was a small class of 15 kids, and 3 bobs. Each bob was on a mission to create more bobs, by distracting others and try get them to join them in mischief. We were worried that we would have 6 bobs if we did not turn the bobs into peaches and cream. At break time, bob1 would eventually also seek out bob4 in second grade, and bob 5 in third grade, who was also new to the school.

Our school took the view that these were potentially unhappy and insecure children with unstable homelives, and they needed all the help and support they could get from us in turning things around. Neither of these children trusted adults. They did not react well to being spoken to, they would hit, kick, spit, throw rocks at teachers.

We could not tell other parents anything about how we were dealing with the bobs. All we could do was try reassure the parents of other children that we were dealing with it but changes would not happen over night.

But what did we actually do?
The bobs became a focus on each weekly staff meeting. We addressed break time, lesson time and after school care, and allocated key people to each child. They key person would have a special focus on building relations and trust. Talk to the bob, show keen interest in bob, and let bob understand that they had at least one ally in school that was in their corner. TAs and also admin staff and leadership were important in this work, as they were present during both school, break time duty, and during after school care.

In class:
Learning partners and collaboration in class. Carousel where children were divided into small groups. The bobs were never in the same groups, and the groups were tailored especially with a view to who each bob got along with.
Social competence in class and role play.

More teachers on duty during breaktime, so there were always extra staff around the bobs.
Various measures were taking to address behaviour at each incident.
Time was spent talking to bob at each incident. Bob was guided into an understanding of their own behaviour, the effect on others, how the other party would view bob after the event. Focus was on making good choices and making agreements that this should not happen again. Our approach to bob was without anger. We asked carefully though through questions, and let them take time to answer.
It was not easy. These conversations could be challenging. Bob1 was mine. I knew we were starting to turn a corner when he told his mum that he knew he could always go to Ms Shadow if he needed somebody to talk to. We also took time to speak to our bobs when times were good, show them we cared, show them we liked them, valued them for all their good sides. The received a lot of praise when they were doing something good, and were whisked away swiftly for a talk in private to avoid them feeling ashamed in front of their class if they did something they shouldn't. Stern talks, anger and punitive consequences does not necessarily help bobs. It may force them into submission, but it will not help them.

The time we invested with the bobs, and also guiding their mums, paid off.

Today the bobs are happy and well liked children who are well integrated into their peer groups. All three of them are lovely children, and a joy to be with. Bob 4 is doing much better, and bob 5 is also doing great.

If school is fobbing you off saying there is nothing they could do, thats bollocks. It just takes time and effort and magic will not happen over night.

We have had many bobs, and in my opinion, school can only help the victims through helping the Bobs. Bobs matter. Their lives may not be great, and as teachers we have a duty to help our bobs.
But if the school is not willing to help, then change schools.

EsselGruntFuttock · 17/11/2019 09:00

@WalkofShame I’m well aware all children have the right to an education thank you very much.

Potatoesx12 · 17/11/2019 09:02

The 'bully' child a few years above mine was causing alot of problems.

3 parents moved their children to another school to escape.

The 'bully' child was then moved to this school to give them a fresh start. 😦

Nightmare situation.

WalkofShame · 17/11/2019 09:04

@EsselGruntFuttock
Apologies, you seemed to be suggesting that one of them didn’t when you said that the other children had the right to be educated in a safe environment.