Aibu nightmare child in dd class

[mussymummy]

So will try to keep this brief, dd was at nursery for 3 years with child, let's call him Bob who physically hurt her and other kids from age 2 when he bit another boy in the face. Nursery did not do enough (they have admitted this since) and the mother keeps making excuses for her darling Bob.
So now they are both in P1 in same class, I did request a class change for my dd but did not happen. He is a nightmare, punching kids in face, at afterschool club he has bitten and kicked one of the workers, his mum still refuses to accept responsibility for him and makes excuses
So this week he told my 5yo dd he was goin to kill her mummy and daddy as we slept. Cue tears, my heart breaking as my dd made me lock every window and door in house as she followed me doing it. She woke 3 times.that night (always sleeps right through) convinced child of chucky was trying to break in.
Ladies what do I do? The mother (aged in 40's with 2 older teenage ds) refuses to do anything about his behaviour because she has already raised 2 sons and there is nowt wrong with them.
I am struggling to know how to handle this. I spoke to the school who told me they have a behaviour plan in place for Bob and the last time I contacted the mum directly it did not go well (when we thought dd had a broken nose after Bob smacked her in face with toy car, there was lots of blood)
Any advice on next steps / how I handle this would be much appreciated

I would move my child to a different school. Threatening to kill your DDs parents at 5 years old is very concerning. That is not usual pushing, shoving or meltdowns. That is a specific threat designed to terrify her. The 5 year old Bob knows that that is the worst thing that could happen in the mind of a 5 year old.
When things are this awful at 5, I suspect they are going to get a whole lot worse as he he gets older. So move your DD and protect her.

@underhisi exactly, people don't realise that anyone can have a child with SEN. I think it's a 'itwonthappentome' mindset. In reality, anyone could find themselves parenting a 'bob' and being ostracized on the playground and apparently on Mumsnet too! :(

Sen is not an excuse. Ds1 is ASD and I'm fully aware he could have potentially been a Bob. He has and does fixate on dark issues. He obsesses over crime and burglaries. He fixates on armies etc.

Do you know why he isn't? Because I make sure I parent him. He's not perfect and nor am I, I have screwed up so many times but I have not allowed ds1 to ever behave like that and would withdraw him if he was. We go to great lengths to control access to any electronics to limit his access to these subjects unless it is us answering questions and we can do so responsibly, we deal with the social application of the fixations, often by teaching by rote at this age because he has no choice but to try to operate within a neurotypical community, it does him no favours to be excused because of his ASD. It would be so easy to trot that excuse out but I would be letting him down. We work hard to prevent him being a Bob.

Don't forget some parents of SEN children have neurotypical c hildren as well , DS2 is neuro typical and whilst I more than understand the challenges of SEN I can also say I would not be impressed if ds2 was on the recieving end.

It's hard parenting a c hild with ASD but it does not absolve you of responsibility. Also like others have said it isn't a blanket diagnosis, I accept ds1 does have the propensity to be a Bob left unchecked but that's part of his personal ASD, by no means does this always extend across every child.

Op go to the school , put everything in writing. Whilst I feel for Bob your dc deserve the right to be unharmed in school. Keep reporting and keep putting it in writing until they do something.

I love ds1 with everyhig I have and I would do anything for him but it's not helping him or children like Bob to continue with this behaviour without consequences nor is it remotely fair for your DC.

I agree with parts of PP, it's not my fault remotely that ds1 is SEN but it is my responsibility to parent him to support and manage it. You can't opt out with SEN as an excuse. You wouldn't refuse to parent because your child has blue eyes , nor should you if they have SEN.

No a 5 year old threatening to kill another child's parents is so way out there in terms of unusual behaviour that if this happened with a child of mine, I would be running straight to a child psychologist. And I think most people think that Bob could never be their child, because this is incredibly extreme. People keep equating Bob to kids with autism having meltdowns. This is not a meltdown, this is calculated.

@1DoesNotSimplyWalkIntoMordor

Other posters have responded to you saying exactly what I would have said.

2 years is the standard time frame where I am. Thresholds for any kind of support is so high that the amount of evidence is key. This takes time to collate and show a pattern over time.

In reality, anyone could find themselves parenting a 'bob' and being ostracized on the playground and apparently on Mumsnet too!
The SEND boards on here demonstrate that most parents of children with SEND needs are busting a gut trying to get support for their child.

Anyone could have a child with additional needs. Most people with children who have additional needs don't sit back and say it's fine for their child to be violent and threatening to others; they seek support and joined up approaches.

Right now we don't know if Bob had SEND needs or is suffering from poor boundaries and environmental issues.

Either way, if what the OP says is correct about Bob's parents then he really has the odds stacked against him because they don't seem that bothered.

My son has episodes of being very aggressive due to anxiety and distress. Nothing to do our parenting and I doubt anyone else could do any better. Anyone could have had a child like mine

Can't you say to the School head teacher "If you don't move her into a different class/get Bob some specialist care and supervision I'll be moving her to a different school, as I'm sure other parents will be with their kids"

I mean it's not easy for some people just "moving schools". What if other schools are full? I had to move house quickly, far away, with my 2 primary age boys to get away from an abuser and it took 2 months to get them into a new school. SO much faffing about it with forms and written notes from his old school to his new school, phone calls, meetings with the council, it was so, SO, incredibly stressful. I was very lucky they had places in the end. I also don't drive and so there was one school just about in walking distance, 25 mins away (can't afford the extortionate bus fares every day to the others). It'd feel impossible moving one of my kids again just as I'm about to start a training course. Me working/studying relies on them being close to their Grandma who can collect them (on foot) if they're ill.

I really feel for you and your daughter OP but you should not have to move her schools. There's got to be some way Bob can be "suspended" or his school now can insist he needs a specialist school. This wouldn't be allowed in the work place would it?

@YetAnotherSpartacus

So sad that your advice is to support the bully

my advice was to focus on ensuring her own child is safeguarded.

Don't know what thread you are reading.

Special school places are difficult to get and if it is social emotional or mental health difficulties, places are rare for children of this age.

Can't you say to the School head teacher "If you don't move her into a different class/get Bob some specialist care and supervision I'll be moving her to a different school, as I'm sure other parents will be with their kids"

Over the course of 3 years with the teacher and head not doing anything and the parents of X threatening anyone that mentioned X's behaviour 9, yes 9, lots of parents removed their children from the school. Actually 10 if you count us, as we took our 2 DC out of the school.
A friend from the old area who still has a child at the school said X is still terrorising kids there. She is leaving the school after Christmas.

Luckily the primary up the road opened a new class in the year between P5 and Primary 1, that class has 6 kids that used to be at the old school.
It's madness.

@drspouse I completely understand what you're saying, we all know what should happen and we all know that it doesn't happen.

I'm still waiting for last year's annual review to be completed, tomorrow I will be arranging dates for this year's review, it took 22 months to transfer my child's statement of SEN to an EHCP, in the last 11years only 2 reviews have been completed in a reasonable time frame (1 within 5 days), complaints get you nowhere fast. The government know that the SEND reforms are not working, schools know it, parents know it but no-one is tackling it collectively.
I stated what should happen because there is still too much misinformation, schools telling parents that they require 1 or 2 terms of evidence or that the child needs to have an IEP for 6months/a year, schools telling parents that they don't have the funds for assessments when it's the LA's responsibility, Schools/LA's telling parents that they can delay completion because of school holidays (half term/Christmas/Easter) when in fact there should only be a short period of delay (not 6 weeks) if the completion date falls during the summer holiday.

I have known of a school saying that once they have requested a needs assessment they don't bother chasing it up. Schools telling parents that they (the parents) cannot request a needs assessment.

I am fed up with the misinformation perpetually doled out to parents by the very people who should know better and who should be doing their utmost to support the children who need it.

"The Bobs of the world get all the resources and attention"

Perhaps at school but I can guarantee they have probably been subjected to abuse and/or neglect at home.

It is the school that needs to work on this and put strategies in place to ensure safety for all children and adults

Can't you say to the School head teacher "If you don't move her into a different class/get Bob some specialist care and supervision I'll be moving her to a different school, as I'm sure other parents will be with their kids"

Not X. Yes his Dad gets very shouty and aggressive to other parents, but X is treated like the second coming at home (I know their next door neighbor). In the park he's the same and the mother runs around saying it wasn't X, when X has just whacked another kid, even when multiple parents have seen it.
X smirks behind his parents back at other parents when his parents are making excuses for him. He knows exactly what he's doing.

Perhaps at school but I can guarantee they have probably been subjected to abuse and/or neglect at home.

Sorry this was what I was responding to.

X smirks behind his parents back at other parents when his parents are making excuses for him. He knows exactly what he's doing.
We've seen that at secondary too.
Deny behaviour
Claim all the members of staff and witnesses are making it up
CCTV evidence of their doing the behaviour

... Oh you must have misunderstood, we aren't saying X didn't do the behaviour, just that maybe you need to do something about the victim because the victim was clearly provoking out child.

X sits there smirking knowing that whatever they do, their parents will deny and then when presented with evidence argue that it's not X's fault, it's the teacher's fault, it's the victim's fault.

There has to be acknowledgment that that sort of behaviour and parenting exists along side the awful struggles some parents and children have to get appropriate support for SEND needs

I think an issue is that not all Bobs consistently bahave like this- it comes and goes. So just as ulyou are concluding GP etc it calms down.
Certainly schools are not necessarily helpful because even knowing there is issues they are not keen on closer lunchtime supervision even if they know that is when the issues are. Or keeping the dc in.
So i would slightly agree with the sentiment there isnt that much a parent can do.
Schools cant tell you what preceeded the incident.
You can punish, remove toys, threaten. However especially if the behaviour is spur of the moment a child doesnt always consider the consequences.
Also it is not necessarily Bob's parent's fault for poor parenting.

You call your county council and ask to speak to children's safeguarding service. You report said child's behaviour and mention parents also have teenagers. It is incredibly neglectful of said mother to let her such young son be exposed to Chucky style experiences, probably got from said teenager siblings. It needs to be sorted out due to the wider impact on other children. This is not....on...

Can't believe some posters are supporting 'Bob'. It doesn't matter what he may or may not 'have'- that does not allow him to terrorise other children.

If the school can't handle it then he needs to leave. His mother needs a kick up the back side to start parenting her child and seeking appropriate support.

However, none of that is OPs problem. The kid needs to go.

Also, in NI they call primary classes P1, P2 etc. So unless confirmed otherwise OP could be in NI rather than Scotland.

@Teachermaths Thresholds for any kind of support is so high that the amount of evidence is key. This takes time to collate and show a pattern over time.

If a child arrives at school on the first day of the academic year and displays challenging behaviours what do you do?

If the child then arrives on day 2 and displays the same behaviours what do you do?

Days 3, 4 and 5?

My assumption is that you support the child by whatever means necessary, or do you just leave them to flounder/carry on?

Support of some kind should be in place sooner rather than later.

This takes time to collate and show a pattern over time.

It’s been 3 years

Support of some kind should be in place sooner rather than later.

Of course it should be. You're stating the obvious now. The in class support will be there. Teachers will be trying their bloody hardest to keep all children in their care safe.

Perhaps I should have said "paid for support from the EHCP". Before getting this every single penny has to come from the schools own budget. It's rare for schools to have the budget to access specialist support without an ECHP.