Aibu nightmare child in dd class

[mussymummy]

So will try to keep this brief, dd was at nursery for 3 years with child, let's call him Bob who physically hurt her and other kids from age 2 when he bit another boy in the face. Nursery did not do enough (they have admitted this since) and the mother keeps making excuses for her darling Bob.
So now they are both in P1 in same class, I did request a class change for my dd but did not happen. He is a nightmare, punching kids in face, at afterschool club he has bitten and kicked one of the workers, his mum still refuses to accept responsibility for him and makes excuses
So this week he told my 5yo dd he was goin to kill her mummy and daddy as we slept. Cue tears, my heart breaking as my dd made me lock every window and door in house as she followed me doing it. She woke 3 times.that night (always sleeps right through) convinced child of chucky was trying to break in.
Ladies what do I do? The mother (aged in 40's with 2 older teenage ds) refuses to do anything about his behaviour because she has already raised 2 sons and there is nowt wrong with them.
I am struggling to know how to handle this. I spoke to the school who told me they have a behaviour plan in place for Bob and the last time I contacted the mum directly it did not go well (when we thought dd had a broken nose after Bob smacked her in face with toy car, there was lots of blood)
Any advice on next steps / how I handle this would be much appreciated

I don't know why we're all supposed to pretend that the children who are injuring others and telling other children they'll come kill their parents in the night aren't going to grow up into psychopathic abusers. The person I knew in grade school who was like this, and similarly excused by his mother, grew up to go to prison for murdering his ex-girlfriend

Oh hang on a minute, we don’t have to discuss it any more and can, in fact, have a huge impact on future offending rates because @WombOfOnesOwn ‘knows someone’.

OP ignore the people here writing off Bob and creating additional dramas.

Report every incident to the school Principal in writing.
In the letter, state that you expect action to be taken or you will escalate the issue due to safeguarding concerns.
If / when no action is taken, write to the chair of governors.
If / when no action is taken write to Ofsted.
If / when no action is taken report to safeguarding.

Don’t mess about waiting between each stage, another incident another letter and the next stage of action.

BUT

Don’t go to Bob’s mum. Whether she is trying to address this issue or not, it’s not having an effect.

Don’t slag off kids who may have very challenging problems and may not be getting the support that they need.

Don’t expect to be told what they’re doing or what’s going on with Bob because they can’t tell you. But ask for details of how your child will be protected.

Don’t believe the nonsense that you’ve read on here demonising kids because someone knew someone at school.

If you approach it in a measured way Bob will end up getting the support that he needs because school will have no choice but to provide it and as a result your daughter will be safer.

WalkofShame we don't have boards of governors or OFSTED in Scotland.

OP I am a primary school teacher in Scotland. We had a child like this in our school and it was very frustrating because, despite repeated requests to the council for help, nothing was forthcoming and we weren't able to handle him. In the end we advised parents to complain to the council as parent power is much stronger than teacher power it seems! I advise you to do this too.

If I was being repeatedly physically assaulted by the same person in my work environment I would call the police. I don't really see any difference with this except the parents and school will be responsible not the individual child. Children have a right to be educated without being physically assaulted.

Stop communicating with the other mum - no good will come of this.

Complain to the head every time he hurts your DD. Keep a record of the incidents. Ask to see the bullying and behaviour and safeguarding policies. Escalate to the chair of governors if necessary.

Be prepared to move schools.

I've bee in this situation to the extreme & don't underestimate the mental damage it does to your DC. My biggest regret is fighting it & not just removing DD from the school.

No SN, but a wild child who knew he was untouchable & a pseudo traveller DM that didn't parent him, but lied to the school instead. Turned out he had been placed in DDs school by the LA after being expelled from other schools.

We did all of the things suggested with no joy.

What worked, was getting a petition together signed by other parents, citing that the school were failing in their duty of care & not adequately protecting the class children from harm. This was then emailed to the Director of Education with a covering letter from the parents insisting that something is done to protect our DCs from this lad & to provide the support he needs to stem his violent behaviour as was their responsibility too, or we would be taking our petition to the press.

The lad was removed from the school within 2 days & offered a place at the local severe behaviour school

If she calls the police they will tell her to talk to the school. It won't help in sorting this out.

OP hasn’t said she’s in Scotland I don’t think? I think someone guessed that she was and it’s been taken as fact. In fact OP posted once and hasn’t been back.

primary aged children can be excluded.
speak to school, every time.
or change class/school

Most of the messages here about schools not being able to do anything come from people with experience of crap schools. I am a governor of a primary school in the most deprived area of country. We have an usually high number of children with additional needs due to deprivation. We also have an unusually high number of children with SEND, not all of whom have ECHPs (although we are working hard to get all our children them). We do get a LOT of pupil premium money though.

I am confident that the needs of all our children are being met. We fund 121s for all children who need it, even if there is no ECHP, it's the only way we can meet our obligations to those children. We recently excluded a violent child. We have found pupils places in specialist provision when we have felt we were unable to meet their needs.

As a governor, I have a statutory responsibility for safeguarding of all children in my school. If a pupil was having this experience and their parents felt that nothing was seeing done, I'd absolutely want to know about it. Please write to the governors. Now, you may not have a school as good as mine, or a governing body as engaged, involved and confident at governing, but if they do nothing then you know it's time move schools.

& I agree, stop approaching the DM, she could actually report you to the police for harassment, I've seen that happen. You also cannot involve the police with any DC under 10 & the parents are not held responsible for DCs actions. How daft

"Going against the grain here it sounds not necessarily SEN but consistent with abuse in the home."

Behaviour caused by abuse at home is also sen.

Make sure you speak to the school every single time there is an incident and STRESS that this is a SAFEGUARDING issue. If they cannot keep your child safe then this is a matter for OFSTED ( or whoever) and you be reporting the school in failing to safeguard children.

When my DD had problems with a simmilar child this was my approach and it did work. The school cannot discuss the needs, behavior and family background of the other child with you ( although it sounds like by now you know them right enough). The kids are still very young but the school should have dealt with this but now - regardless of whether the parents of this boy are doing anything.

When you speak to the school focus on the needs of your own child and how the school will meet them. Just make sure that it is not your DC who loses out - ie kept in off the playground at lunch so this boy cannot attack her.

It sounds like the boy is undergoing a sen diagnosis through the school and the mother is in denial. Reassure he can't do anything to hurt you and inform the school of his threats. Leave them to liaise with the mother. If he's actually violent to her beyond normal school yard stuff then do contact the police but it's obvious this boy is mentally unstable in some way, quite possibly a neural pathway disorder but there's other possibilities

ds1 was a "nightmare" child in primary. Within a matter of weeks (if not sooner) of him being placed in a special school his behaviour dramatically improved. The "behaviour" was not him. The "behaviour" was him in an environment he found incredibly stressful and overwhelming. It was not psychopathic tendencies, it was not witnessing domestic violence (I think I would have noticed if there has been any of that), it was not bad parenting (OK I am biased about that one), it was not watching violent TV programmes or playing violent computer games (never did so) it was a little boy who was so stressed that his "fight and flee" response was on permanently red alert.

This is not to say the OP should put up with the problem. She defintely should not and her action should be to report every incident to the school preferably in writing. Only if there is a formal record of problems will support be put in place and this will be a win, win situation for BOTH children.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions it's much appreciated.
I honestly have thought about what kind of home life this child has, whatever he is being exposed to as home is most certainly affecting his behaviour, he most certainly needs additional help and support. It's just unfortunate that his mother does not seen to realise there is an issue.

It's just unfortunate that his mother does not seen to realise there is an issue

Again - just for clarity - how do you know this is the case?

I'm surprised the other children haven't punched him back.

A violent child should be suspended.

How terrifying for other children coming to school and trying to learn and being abused by a little terror that nobody does anything about.

I suspect a lot of this are parents who refuse to parent and abusive/neglectful home situations.

Honestly OP, stop talking to the mum. Deal with the school only.

When kids were at nursery I spoke with the mother and she told me she refused to believe her child behaved like this, she has also told mutual friends this as well.
I have been told she constantly makes excuses for his behaviour
She is not doing her own child any favours by not believing

A meeting with the head and the other parents and in no outcome is satisfactory go to the LEA ...It sounds awful and needs tackling immediately.Your child has a right to have her mental health safeguarded and you should not be put off requesting this....

Whether Bob has SN is neither here nor there, the fact is your child is not being kept safe and her and every other child in the class is having their education interrupted on a daily basis. Arrange a meeting with the HT and insist your child is kept safe. Inform SS of any injuries and lodge a complaint with OFSTED. Dont let the HT use SN as an excuse

WtF do people keep suggesting to go to the police over a 5 yo DC

They are not criminally responsible for their own actions until 10, you CANNOT go to the police

It's teacher, then head, then board of governors, then if still no joy EWO, Ofsted & the Director of Education

The OP is in Scotland where LEAs and OFSTED do not exist.

It’s Council and Education Scotland.

Can someone Scottish verify this?

please don’t give Englandcentric advice even if OP should have stated where she is if she’s actually seeking practical advice

@Teachermaths it doesn't take a minimum of 2 years to get an EHCP. In some cases it can take 6 months of evidence gathering after a diagnosis and then 20 week wait for decision. In exceptional circumstances it can take 6 months from application to accepted on emergency funding basis.

OP I would want to see the report written after your daughter almost broke her nose and what was logged and how. I would also want to know how she was now being safeguarded to prevent this happening again.

And if the school weren't showing evidence of how and it was continuing to happen I would be taking it further. This is not acceptable behaviour and other children should not be having to suffer.

Head teacher and governors with your safe guarding concerns. Try to get as many of the other parents involved as possible. Otherwise walk away. Find another school. Your daughter deserves and needs the stability. Loudly tell anyone who asks exactly why you’re leaving. Because the school is failing to protect your child from the class terror.