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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want Primark to provide a women only changing room?

366 replies

Amelia1985x · 16/11/2019 15:22

I’m a regular Primark customer and was surprised to go the store yesterday and find all the changing rooms had been redesignated as mixed sex. The shop assistant told me not to worry, because most customers on the ladies’ floor were women, and anyway, she could see down the line of curtained cubicles and would challenge a “dodgy man”. When I questioned her about how she would spot one, she called the Manager as he could explain the policy better.

He told me the world was changing. I asked him why Primark had had sex segregated changing rooms in the first place. No answer. I asked him what specific legislative change or scientific discovery had occurred that made the world different to this time last year. No answer. He said that this arrangement was more inclusive for nonbinary people.

I explained that I didn’t feel that comfortable stripping to my knickers in a mixed area, and he told me I could always use the one disabled cubicle which has a lockable door. Clearly this has been designed for mixed sex use and did have a lock, but obviously I would then be blocking its use for a disabled person. He suggested there was no reason to be concerned. Yet when I think about me and my women friends, all our me-too moments, - of being flashed at, or masturbated at, sexual assaults and rapes – all have been my men.

The manager was unabashed. He said Primark had done research – even though he couldn’t produce it, and there were no leaflets or posters to explain this HUGE policy change to customers. He told me I was the only person who had ever complained.

So I guess this is what I want to know. Am I a dinosaur? Am I being unreasonable to want a women only changing room?

OP posts:
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6
FeckaDecka · 17/11/2019 13:37

YANBU THEY ARE. HOW FUCKING RIDICULOUS. Angry THIS SHIT HAS GONE FAR TO FUCKING FAR.

Mickhasnotorso · 17/11/2019 13:45

Your lack of punctuation is more offensive.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 17/11/2019 14:00

Precisely, darkside. If some weren't happy with the previous arrangements then the burden should fall on them to explain why they think those weren't working and why the newly emerging pattern/s are better.

And not just for the less than 1%, for everyone. How do mixed sex changing facilities benefit the majority. Fully enclosed cubicles could be implemented in sex segregated spaces so those don't work as a reason for making facilities mixed sex (though I do think that curtains are in general a bad idea - doors, doors are good).

DuMondeB · 17/11/2019 14:06

Idk why we can't just have locked cubicles. You don't shit behind a curtain.

Needs no gap between floor and partition/door though - a man put his head under the side of my cubicle ar a swimming pool. Even a small gap is a problem, there have been loads of criminal prosecutions after men have slid phones or mirrors under gaps. Dirty bastards.

HandsOffMyRights · 17/11/2019 15:47

Can somebody answer my question: how do mixed sex changing rooms benefit females?

PerfectPeony2 · 17/11/2019 15:58

I know there’s been so many threads on here about single sex spaces and I was never really bothered until a few weeks ago.

A hotel we stayed at had mixed toilets, no single cubicles all shared sinks. My 5 year old niece was on the toilet and a man walked in and saw her. All completely by accident of course but it really fucking annoyed me.

More needs to be done to challenge all these ridiculous changes.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 17/11/2019 16:05

I think a lot of people think it's OK in theory, and then you're confronted by the reality and realize that it's really really not.

I wasn't scared of the embarrassed teenage boy who pulled open the curtain when I was changing, but it doesn't take much imagination to see how easily that situation could shift from "annoying" or "embarrassing" to dangerous.

QuantumEntanglement · 17/11/2019 16:11

“Only bigots have a problem with it. They’re just peeing in there, what’s the problem? ” I remember someone saying this to me a couple of years ago when I expressed dissatisfaction at my first ever experience with gender neutral bathrooms at a conference I was attending. Clearly they had once been separate blocks that had hastily had the signs changed on the doors.
And, like many here, I asked: “But if that’s true, then what was wrong with the old separate bathrooms? Who asked for/decided for them to be changed? What has been made better about ‘just peeing’ for anyone by making them mixed because as far as I can see NO ONE here, even the men, appears to be entirely comfortable with it.”

No answer was forthcoming then or is forthcoming now apparently.

MeClavdivs · 17/11/2019 16:11

it doesn't take much imagination to see how easily that situation could shift from "annoying" or "embarrassing" to dangerous

That's what makes me so angry about the whole "if anything did happen then we would deal with it appropriately" line.

It's a bit late once something actually has happened. You can't un-ring a bell.

CripsSandwiches · 17/11/2019 16:29

You can want it all you want but they haven't provided it. You have separate cubicles I think it's absolutely fine and I'd actually prefer it like this so I could bring DS with me.

HepzibahGreen · 17/11/2019 17:03

But you can bring a little boy in the women's changing room anyway! And once they are a bit older they can wait outside for you, if you absolutely have to have them with you in the shop (as a lone mum I had to take dc everywhere, as lots do, so I do get that ).
I agree with darkside. We dont need reasons why we want to keep our privacy.

Eckhart · 17/11/2019 17:04

@NeedAnExpert No, my argument hasn't come full circle. If the men are the risk, then putting the boys with them means the boys are more at risk.

For those of you saying that what I ask hasn't been offered, yes, I agree. I'm thinking in an ideal way. I don't expect it to be all fixed up by tomorrow. But I mostly base my ideals on my ideals. It seems logical to me.

Elisheva · 17/11/2019 17:24

I’m going to repeat handsoffmyrights question from upthread as no one has answered it and it seems relevant.
How do mixed sex changing rooms benefit women?

yellowallpaper · 17/11/2019 17:30

Provided there's a curtain I wouldn't be bothered, but I entirely see your point and objection.

Eckhart · 17/11/2019 17:34

@Elisheva If correctly designed and managed, they will increase security for everybody, women included.

paperbeatsrock · 17/11/2019 17:38

I know a lot of blokes would hate this. They would be quite scared of you seeing them in pants.

I don’t think anybody, excepting slightly shy exhibitionists, wants to be seen in their pants by strangers.

Elisheva · 17/11/2019 17:51

If correctly designed and managed, they will increase security for everybody, women included.
More so than correctly designed and managed single sex changing?

Eckhart · 17/11/2019 18:00

The same as correctly designed and managed single sex changing @Elisheva: reduced risk for everybody against all predators, via lockable doors and adequate security.

Has anybody found those stats yet re how many boys are being perved on in changing rooms with curtains? Or are we just to assume it's none? Also, I'm still curious about the women of religion question. Would they be breaching their religious etiquette by changing in a locked room alone?

notnowmaybelater · 17/11/2019 18:01

Eckhart they aren't correctly designed and managed.

This isn't a theoretical idealistic daydream, it's already happened.

The existing single sex changing rooms have just been renamed.

There has been no physical change to the curtain plus teenage staff members set up. There isn't going to be a lockable floor to ceiling cubicle with room for a double buggy and panic alarm in case anyone is waiting inside for a 14 year old girl. There isn't going to be a security guard.

The changing rooms already exist, nobody is redesigning them or restaffing them, they're just saying that they are no longer single sex, so nobody can be challenged about walking in or hanging about unless they have already committed a crime.

notnowmaybelater · 17/11/2019 18:03

Eckhart I'm pretty sure the statistics you want haven't been compiled, but you should look for them yourself if you're genuinely interested - it's nobody's job to be your research assistant.

Eckhart · 17/11/2019 18:10

@notnowmaybelater Yes, I know. My argument is that we should be aiming for adequate security. If a room is securely managed, then it doesn't matter which sex/gender is inside, they'll be safe.

The OP was about whether we should want women only changing rooms. I don't think we should. I think we should be demanding safe changing rooms, and they should be equally safe for everybody.

Elisheva · 17/11/2019 18:12

Until we have the perfect, safe for all changing rooms, should we use the statistics we do have to create the safest situation we can - which is single sex changing?

QuantumEntanglement · 17/11/2019 18:13

Eckhart you seem very invested in deflecting the topic away from the fact that it is predominantly females - women and girls - who are at risk from sexually predatory males. Pre-adolescent boys always been allowed in women’s facilities and that’s not being argued against by anyone here.

In the vanishingly small number of cases where there has been sexual predation on boys by females for the person who raised it, I have yet to see an instance reported in the press as having occurred in a public changing room or bathroom.

Toorahtoorahaye · 17/11/2019 18:20

I guess it’s hard these days when we can’t tell the 2 sexes apart, so how would you be able to segregate - on sight alone? Who’s going to make that call and risk offending someone for not looking feminine or female enough and getting it wrong.

To want Primark to provide a women only changing room?
To want Primark to provide a women only changing room?
Eckhart · 17/11/2019 18:20

@QuantumEntanglement I'm invested in equality and making sure that everybody is adequately protected, not just women.

Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And sexual predation on boys can be by men or women. It might be hard for boys to admit they've been abused. It doesn't mean they're not being abused. Has anybody got any stats on this? Or is it simply not being studied? That'd be worrying, wouldn't it. Men never perv on boys in changing rooms is the assumption. That can't be true.