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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want Primark to provide a women only changing room?

366 replies

Amelia1985x · 16/11/2019 15:22

I’m a regular Primark customer and was surprised to go the store yesterday and find all the changing rooms had been redesignated as mixed sex. The shop assistant told me not to worry, because most customers on the ladies’ floor were women, and anyway, she could see down the line of curtained cubicles and would challenge a “dodgy man”. When I questioned her about how she would spot one, she called the Manager as he could explain the policy better.

He told me the world was changing. I asked him why Primark had had sex segregated changing rooms in the first place. No answer. I asked him what specific legislative change or scientific discovery had occurred that made the world different to this time last year. No answer. He said that this arrangement was more inclusive for nonbinary people.

I explained that I didn’t feel that comfortable stripping to my knickers in a mixed area, and he told me I could always use the one disabled cubicle which has a lockable door. Clearly this has been designed for mixed sex use and did have a lock, but obviously I would then be blocking its use for a disabled person. He suggested there was no reason to be concerned. Yet when I think about me and my women friends, all our me-too moments, - of being flashed at, or masturbated at, sexual assaults and rapes – all have been my men.

The manager was unabashed. He said Primark had done research – even though he couldn’t produce it, and there were no leaflets or posters to explain this HUGE policy change to customers. He told me I was the only person who had ever complained.

So I guess this is what I want to know. Am I a dinosaur? Am I being unreasonable to want a women only changing room?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
HandsOffMyRights · 17/11/2019 11:51

Nancy will also care if a male, like the NSPCC's Rubberman, is wanking in the cubicle next to her and her daughter.

uncommongroundmedia.com/nspcc-employee-films-himself-masturbating-at-work/

JustAnotherMNUserPassing · 17/11/2019 12:02

I have a friend who works in Primark and she says that their ones are still segregated (Southampton store)

DuMondeB · 17/11/2019 12:05

YANBU.

I went in a massive Primark earlier this week. Left with just some leg warmers and hair clips.
I’m not using a mixer sex changing room - the one time I used a ‘changing village’ at a pool, a man put his head under my cubicle 😫

Jolonglegs · 17/11/2019 12:18

I don't have any problems with mixed sex changing rooms providing that they have lockable full length doors, and solid full length partitions between cubicles. I don't understand why they can't be provided: are these companies stupid of something?

MonChatEstMagnifique · 17/11/2019 12:25

how do people feel about their young/teenage sons using all male changing rooms with nothing but a curtain between them and potential abusers?

I have a son and a daughter. Of course I feel concern for my son and other boys in this situation. But the fact remains that the majority of predatory men prey on girls and women, not boys and men. You can't take away any risk but it's sensible to reduce risk. Having lockable cubicles is therefore sensible.

Ive always said I feel ok about mixed sex cubicles if they're lockable and floor to ceiling. Obviously reading about hidden cameras is concerning though. It's understandable that some women feel keeping single sex changing rooms would reduce this risk, although I don't know how likely it is hidden cameras would become a thing in mixed sex cubicles.

I think the people that just don't understand womens concerns at all are basing their views on decent men, of which I believe the majority are. You have to think about the minority of disgusting perverts though. The ones so perverted that they will take any opportunity to prey on girls and women. Good, decent men or trans women will not take offence at girls and women wanting lockable cubicles or even single sex cubicles, they will see it's not a personal attack on them.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 17/11/2019 12:25

YANBU. Last time I tried to use a mixed sex changing room with curtains a teenage boy yanked my curtain open. Dunno if he was hoping to find a girl his own age behind the curtain rather than a very pissed off woman his mum's age or if he just thought that cubicle was empty but I was angry and he was embarrassed. If I was a teenage girl or the offending party had been a grown man that incident might have played out very differently.

Small children also crawl under the curtains sometimes, which makes me wonder how much of a nightmare it must be trying to try anything on with little kids who're inclined to go for a wander in tow and no door you can shut to contain them.

Eckhart · 17/11/2019 12:35

@darkside29 Is there a particular poster you're referring to when you say it's like watching an abuser behind the scenes?

Eckhart · 17/11/2019 12:39

@MonChatEstMagnifique Of course I feel concern for my son and other boys in this situation. But...?

Everybody needs protecting from predators. What if your son was the one in a million? Would you not wish he'd had a lock and a security guard and an alarm then?

OlaEliza · 17/11/2019 12:43

Men, women's and whatever floats your boat still doesn't work because you'll still get all the men that 'identify' as women, in the women's.

Eckhart · 17/11/2019 12:44

@OlaEliza Yes!

MonChatEstMagnifique · 17/11/2019 12:44

Everybody needs protecting from predators. What if your son was the one in a million? Would you not wish he'd had a lock and a security guard and an alarm then?

Well, if you quoted the rest of my post you will see that I've said lockable cubicles are sensible. On my previous post I said curtains are not acceptable.

I am extremely protective of both my son and daughter. I can't protect against everything though. It's a fact that my daughter is more at risk than my son is though. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Armadillostoes · 17/11/2019 12:47

Exactly Eckhart. I suspect though that you won't get much of an answer is the people with these attitudes don't have a coherent response. I not that Buzz didn't come back after being called out on dismissing the experiences of people unfortunate enough to have been sexually assaulted by a woman. Stating that it is unusual and therefore can be ignored is pretty awful for the victims-Male or female.

Mickhasnotorso · 17/11/2019 12:48

I can't get worked up about it. If a dodgy man really wanted to get into these spaces he would, mixed sex or not. Do you think a bloke who wanted to attack a woman would think "ah fuck, I'm not allowed in there" about single sex changing rooms?

Armadillostoes · 17/11/2019 12:50

MonChat-You are just yet again repeating the obvious point we all agreed on. Nobody is denying that statistically females are more at risk from males BUT that doesn't mean we can ignore the fact that women assault women too., nor that men get sexually assaulted too.

Eckhart · 17/11/2019 12:50

@Monchatestmagnifique

Yes, sorry. I'm glad that we agree that everyone is at risk and everyone needs protecting.

MonChatEstMagnifique · 17/11/2019 12:53

BUT that doesn't mean we can ignore the fact that women assault women too., nor that men get sexually assaulted too.

I'm not ignoring it. I'm saying in life there are risks and we should try to reduce those risks. Are you saying you think that we can reduce risk to zero? The only way of that is to not have any changing rooms at all. There will always be people who harm others.

Eckhart · 17/11/2019 12:56

@Armadillostoes Thank you. Yes, it seems that male on male sexual predators is nothing more than a 'derailment' on this thread.
Also nobody has answered about whether locked, secure cubicles would be ok for the women of religion who would be affected by this. Does anybody know?

Eckhart · 17/11/2019 13:00

No, @MonChatEstMagnifique, I'm saying that locked cubicles and adequate security will reduce the risk for all. Did you not read the other 97 times I said it? If it doesn't reduce the risk, then the security isn't adequate. If we need locked cubicles and a row of tanks, so be it. It's the only way to reduce risk for both your son and your daughter.

Has anybody got any stats on male/male sexual assault in cubicles?

spoonfulofsalt · 17/11/2019 13:00

I can't get worked up about it. If a dodgy man really wanted to get into these spaces he would, mixed sex or not. Do you think a bloke who wanted to attack a woman would think "ah fuck, I'm not allowed in there" about single sex changing rooms?

People tend to be more inclined to commit crimes when they feel like they can get away with it. Look at all the reports on hidden cameras in changing rooms/toilets. A majority of that footage comes from MIXED SEX changing rooms/toilets. Shops can't prevent things like this from happening, but they sure has hell can take measures to reduce that risk.

notnowmaybelater · 17/11/2019 13:04

The most men are decent argument is akin to arguing people should leave their car doors unlocked and keys in because most people aren't car thieves...

MonChatEstMagnifique · 17/11/2019 13:16

No, @MonChatEstMagnifique, I'm saying that locked cubicles and adequate security will reduce the risk for all. Did you not read the other 97 times I said it?

I agree. But many women feel we can reduce the risk even more by having single sex cubicles and that's understandable. This reduces the likelihood of hidden cameras being placed in cubicles etc

Personally I do not mind mixed sex lockable cubicles but that's because I think hidden cameras seem far fetched. But maybe it's not that far fetched. So single sex cubicles, floor to ceiling in both men and women's changing rooms seem safest.

notnowmaybelater · 17/11/2019 13:20

Eckhart nobody is offering us solid floor to ceiling lockable cubicles and security guards in changing rooms though.

You seem to be answering a yes or no question with "purple" and then trying to shoot down everyone who answered the yes/ no question with no, conveniently forgetting that "purple" isn't available as an answer...

NeedAnExpert · 17/11/2019 13:28

If we need locked cubicles and a row of tanks, so be it. It's the only way to reduce risk for both your son and your daughter.

There is an alternative. Different changing rooms organised by sex - i.e. what was. No need for tanks then. Your argument appears to have come all the way around. Grin

darkside29 · 17/11/2019 13:34

what if? What about? What if?

It doesn’t matter.

Separate changing rooms are uncontroversial. They are about respecting privacy.
Crime statistics, risk assessments, or arguments about men and women are not needed to justify them.

No one asked for the existing arrangements to change.
There is no evidence anyone was consulted about it.
There is no evidence that any harm was done under the existing arrangements.
There was no majority consensus that change was due or required.

Mickhasnotorso · 17/11/2019 13:34

Idk why we can't just have locked cubicles. You don't shit behind a curtain.