How dare they?

[astralweaks]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/nov/16/a-letter-to-our-neighbours-with-a-baby

The above is in today’s Guardian. Thoughts?
I think the author and his partner have shown remarkable restraint and been far too polite.

I understand the author's frustration but don't really understand what changed they want. My baby was attached to me breastfeeding for her first two months but occasionally she would scream bloody murder and there was nothing we could do to calm her except hold her and try to comfort her. Our neighbour (MIL) said she could hear everything (she wasn't complaining, just observing), but considering she couldn't calm down DD either I'm not sure what we would have done if an actual complaint was made. Luckily our room (with DD in too)!is on the far wall of the house because our other room would barely fit a cot in never mind a bed for us to sleep.

I haven’t seen all this money lavished on parents and children either!

“£75 per year pales into insignificance beside all the money that is lavished on parents and children. Free prescriptions for the pregnant and their children - not means tested. Free dentistry - not means tested - the cost of state education (not means tested) - the cost to the NHS of caring for a pregnant woman (not means tested) - the cost of maternity pay (not means tested).”

This is hysterical. I am a higher rate taxpayer - I paid more in tax this year than I will ever get back from the pittance that is statutory maternity pay (currently £139 a week for 39 weeks) or child benefit - a generous £20 a week! Free prescriptions and dental care only apply when pregnant and for a year after the birth. Hardly generous and yes state education and NHS is paid by the taxpayer - of which I am one and so is my partner and our child will be one day too. Presumably you have your own private roads, fire service, armed forces, police, courts and judicial system and don’t have to rely on those paid for by other taxpayers including those who lived before you and whose taxes also paid for your NHS and state education before you could work?!

@ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens reply above and you have also very nicely made my point about the individualistic, materialistic and selfish attitudes which predominate in the UK!

I think the author and his partner have shown remarkable restraint and been far too polite.

Are you on glue? I think the author seems like a dick.

I read this earlier and was aghast at the arrogance of the writing style. Person comes across as a complete twat, especially having never even mentioned it to the neighbours.
Not quite the same because it wasn't the bedroom but I had a baby next door who screamed solidly 3hrs every evening for the best part of a year. I just felt sorry for the poor parents & turned the telly up & checked mum was ok when I saw her.
I think there are things like tantrums in the middle of shopping centres that many people genuinely can't empathise with until it happens to them.

You only need to read most of AIBU to realise we DO have a child worshipping culture in this country.

It might seem that way but it's a parenting forum so it would have a kid-focus.
Anyone who has lived in other countries would see that we really don't child-worship here.

Presumably you have your own private roads, fire service, armed forces, police, courts and judicial system and don’t have to rely on those paid for by other taxpayers including those who lived before you and whose taxes also paid for your NHS and state education before you could work?!

You're arguing a completely different point here. I haven't said I object to the principle of taxation funding these things. I'm saying that the state spends a disproportionate amount of money supporting people who choose to have children - in comparison to what is spent on the childfree - as evidence of the child-veneration which is taken for granted in our society.

The homeless young adults you have mentioned are a case in point. Would some of this non-means-tested funding not be better diverted into allowing young adults to claim housing benefits? The only way these young people can claim more money from the state is by - guess what - having children.

"£75 per year pales into insignificance beside all the money that is lavished on parents and children. Free prescriptions for the pregnant and their children - not means tested. Free dentistry - not means tested - the cost of state education (not means tested) - the cost to the NHS of caring for a pregnant woman (not means tested) - the cost of maternity pay (not means tested)"

There is a reason these are provided--ensuring pregnant women are looked after saves the NHS money should anything serious happen. They are cheaper, preventative measures.
As for children, we need them. Socially and economically. They will work and pay taxes to fund the economy, infrastructure and pensions. They will become future doctors, nurses, carers that will look after us in our old age or when we get sick. So all this money "lavished" (haha) on them is essential to future society.

Darn it-bold fail!!

@suk44 like you l was fairly sure having children is a lifestyle choice 🤔

I’m sure the baby crying was annoying but he / she should be sharing a room with it’s parents. I’m sure the person who wrote the letter is often irritating to his neighbours with the TV being on too loud, slamming doors early / late in the day or some crap parking etc. But we all need to coexist or yeah move to the wilds of nowhere or be able to afford a detached property

The author of that letter should get a fucking big dog up him.

Such a British thing to do....complain in a paper and hope your neighbour reads it

Like Mumsnet 😂

@ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens

“ You're arguing a completely different point here. I haven't said I object to the principle of taxation funding these things. I'm saying that the state spends a disproportionate amount of money supporting people who choose to have children - in comparison to what is spent on the childfree - as evidence of the child-veneration which is taken for granted in our society.”

But it doesn’t! The amount spent on children, young people and maternity services is tiny. The largest welfare spend is on pensions, closely followed by adult social care. According to your logic this is evidence of the “veneration” of the elderly, because the tiny amount spent on children and young people is evidence of “child-worshipping”. It isn’t. As the pp above said, much of the spending on children and maternity services is preventative and essential to our future society.

people don't seem to be able to speak to each other anymore unless it through text or social media.

People are cowards - they can say whatever they want without consequence online. Where as in real life you'd have to look at a real person, whose probably a nice doing-her-best mom thats been up half the night with her baby and have the balls to be outed as a bit of a bastard.

As PP's have pointed out, the most crazy thing about this is that they didn't say anything! They didn't give the parents the opportunity to try and improve things, they just sat there and seethed.

My neighbour's dog is noisy when alone in the house. I've mentioned it and he's done what he can to calm her down. It's still not great if he goes out for the evening, but we've communicated about it and I accept that he's trying.

In an ideal world parents would consider their neighbours when they live in a flat/terraced house and have a crying baby, noise insulate where possible, have carpets/rugs instead of hard floors, have the baby in the room in the house that least disturbs NDN etc.

In an ideal world neighbours would feel confident parents are considerate, aware of their surroundings and are doing all they can to keep noise as low as possible. They then will be sympathetic to a baby crying in the early weeks/months and maybe make some temporary adjustments (wear earplugs, move to spare room if either is possible) to support the new parents.

In an ideal world if the noise nuisance continued beyond those early months a neighbour would be able to amicably say it is impacting them and the parents would apologise, listen and see if there was anything they could do to help reduce the noise disturbance and let the neighbour know what they are trying/ask if there is any improvement.

Unfortunately we live in a world where everyone, including parents, are too self-centric and don't even try to see another persons circumstances.

I had understood this regular Guardian feature to be about letters that let off steam/emotions but aren't actually sent. A quick scan of some of the recent archives includes several letters to deceased/estranged people.

There is nothing to suggest that the author has ever said this in "real-life" or would ever dream of mentioning anything to the neighbours.

Unfortunately we live in a world where everyone, including parents, are too self-centric.

Whilst I agree, some folks are self-centred (parents included), if someone is sleep-deprived and unaware, they might not realise the extent of the noise. The onus is on the neighbour to let them know so it can be addressed.

What a passive aggressive twat. Why on earth not say something to the neighbours?! Why not buy earplugs, change bedrooms, have a conversation about it? Doesn’t he know babies are meant to share a room with their parents for the first six months? Jeez.

There is nothing to suggest that the author has ever said this in "real-life" or would ever dream of mentioning anything to the neighbours.

But that's totally nuts! If there's a problem, neighbours need to talk about and see if a resolution can be found, .e.g., moving the cot, taking the baby into another room to feed when they wake up (I used to do this so I didn't wake up DH), etc. Lying there seething is daft.

itllneverfitinthecar That's the point - instead of writing an anonymous letter to a national newspaper which in all probability the neighbour's will never read, why not have a civilised word with them about how their baby is disturbing you.

Or they will have no idea ....

Ffs i think this is more indicative of our entitlement culture tbh. If you share a wall with people, you will hear noise. Babies cry. Get over it.

the world doesn’t stop just because you’ve had a child. The people around you have their own lives to cope with, their own problems that they don’t inflict on others. To expect them to share your discomfort is deeply selfish.

What a coward this person is! Doesn't dare to tell the neighbours there's a problem, yet writes an anonymous letter accusing them of selfishness and lack of consideration.

Our neighbour used to be vile about our daughter crying. She'd bang on our wall at night, she came round and complained. I asked her what she expected me to do (I did apologise and try to empathise first) and she said stop her crying at n night! I actually laughed when she said that. What the fuck did she expect me to do? Suffocate her?
Luckily she moved out and a family moved in . No more issues.

It's not like babies are a lifestyle choice.

😂😂. FFS. Of course they are! People actually choose to have babies 🙄. What a stupid comment.