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AIBU?

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Original poster

Can't afford Child maintenance payments.

257 replies

locco21 · 15/11/2019 18:13

Name change due to this being very outing!

DP has 2 children from a previous relationship. Of course there's been bumps in the road but overall everyone gets on okay and preciously there have rarely been any big issues between DP and his ex.

However, DP's ex is one of those 'you're not seeing your kids' type if he disagrees with her at all. For example, if she wants to go out on a Thursday (not his contact day), and he can't change his plans to look after them she will text him 'you're a shit dad and you're not seeing your kids again-I'm changing their surnames' etc... kind of thing. Not very nice at all. However DP has learnt to cope with this and now only makes arrangements to pick the kids up and doesn't entertain anything else.

Moving on, DP's ex has recently become worse and has been messaging abuse to us both- also saying things to upset the children etc... and has completely took a flip on her child maintenance stance.

Previously, due to the horrendous amount of debt his ex left him in (he stupidly took it on as He didn't want bailiffs turning up at his children's home). The arrangement was for DP to pay a lower rate of maintenance, organised by himself and his ex- this is so he could pay the debt and stay afloat. We buy the children lots of things also- basically they don't want for anything from either parent.

However, DP has currently changed jobs, he is receiving a lower pay rate however is much happier in this job which is also more stable. He didn't even mention it and carried on paying his maintenance as usual. However now his ex is filing a CMS case (which I know she is more than entitled to do- before anyone says anything). But DP simply can not afford the rate in which he would have to pay as he is still paying their debts. After rent, debts, bills and maintenance he would not have a penny left- meaning no petrol, no food etc... he's really stressing and doesn't know what to do.

His ex has rang him and explained all of this and he asked if she was struggling for money etc... that's where the change of heart come from? She said no, she just wanted to make life harder for him. Very petty to say the least.

Anyway, Is DP BU to contest this? No idea how he can even?! But should he just bite then bullet and pay the higher rate even if he cannot afford it? He is a great dad and this has really upset him. We know she is obviously legally entitled to this money, but it's sometimes so unfair for some dads as the CMS system doesn't take circumstance into account very often..

Opinions and advice welcome! Thanks 😊

OP posts:
Armadillostoes · 16/11/2019 12:00

OP-It might be worth getting some proper legal advice if at all possible-it would need to be from a good, creative solicitor too. But if your DP took the debt on from his ex in exchange for something e.g. an agreement to accept lower payments, there might actually be a good argument that she is bound by that. Even in the absence of a written record, the mere fact that he took on debt for items which he didn't benefit from would ver strongly suggest to a judge that his version of events is true.

DriftingLeaves · 16/11/2019 12:01

No, Op. of course you shouldn't give up your education to provide for the children of a woman who won't work to support them herself. Utter madness.

TellMeWhoTheVilliansAre · 16/11/2019 12:22

In that case Drifting Leaves, she needs to consider an she afford to be in a relationship with this particular man. Because like it or not, if he's skint, can't afford, food, petrol etc then she will be subsidising him, and by extension his ex.

If she doesn't want that, she either keeps everything financial separate, and she eats some evenings that her partner doesn't. Hmm

Whattodoabout · 16/11/2019 12:23

If the debts were in her name then they are her debts and therefore her responsibility. He needs to call the debt companies up and explain that he has been paying the debt but that it actually isn’t his burden so they need to contact her for payment. Bailiffs are extreme, companies very rarely resort to that unless the debt is substantial. Companies also have to accept however much you can afford in repayments, even if it’s only a pound a week. His ex needs to sort her own debts out, not your DP.

When he stops paying her debts he should have enough to pay the correct amount of maintenance. He does have to pay whatever CMS suggest, that will be the bare minimum as well, it’s never very much. CMS certainly don’t ‘fleece’ Father’s, it’s usually not enough money to raise the children.

IndefatigableMouse · 16/11/2019 12:33

Have you checked that you will definitely pay more under CMS? If he's on a lower paid job it might not be as bad as you think. What is the difference in the amount?

RedPanda2 · 16/11/2019 12:42

Could he have the kids 50/50??

hsegfiugseskufh · 16/11/2019 12:45

the OP is considering stitching up a single mum

Yeah she sounds really stitched up. Debt free and with on tap babysitters and never having worked. What a bloody hard life.

funinthesun19 · 16/11/2019 12:51

If she doesn't want that, she either keeps everything financial separate, and she eats some evenings that her partner doesn't

Well at the end of the day, she didn’t create those children. He could have put something on the end of it. Why should the op’s life go downhill because he made (possibly bad) past decisions?

Ellisandra · 16/11/2019 12:58

If she’s never worked a day in her life, where did the credit come from to get into this debt that is hers, that he has taken on?

Quite possible that it’s more of a joint debt than you think, based on decisions they both made at the time.

hsegfiugseskufh · 16/11/2019 13:01

She gets an income from her parents. Most companies will take into account income from benefits as well. joint loans are based on household income.

PegasusReturns · 16/11/2019 13:02

@larrygrylls

Fathers can win by paying the appropriate amount of maintenance (and that is half the cost of raising a child not the paltry amounts that CM seems to think resident parents can get by on) and being sufficiently engaged and involved in their DCs lives that they do an equal amount of actual parenting.

I'm making the assumption that the father didn't previously want the DC 50:50 because if he did there's really no reason why he wouldn't get it. The fact is he hasn't bothered and now posters are stating that he should go for it, explicitly to avoid paying. I think that's grim.

I assume we can agree that the mother is in fact raising two kids with little support?

WhatsTheStoryToday · 16/11/2019 13:03

@Ellisandra. Quite.

The OP has been sold a fib. It was the OPs DHs debt.

hsegfiugseskufh · 16/11/2019 13:06

whatsthestory and you know that for certain do you?

Ellisandra · 16/11/2019 13:08

One would hope that any court application for 50/50 made immediately after an application by the other party to CMS would be held in dim view by the court.

You’ve had great advice about having the prior debt considered and debt restructuring /relief. Those are the appropriate actions - not going for 50/50 for any reason that isn’t primarily motivated by wellbeing of the children.

WhatsTheStoryToday · 16/11/2019 13:10

@Bollykecks I know for certain that it's virtually impossible to get the sort of credit required to obtain debts that take a working man years to pay off and represent a significant amount of his income

That's hardly a controversy position to take Hmm

WhatsTheStoryToday · 16/11/2019 13:12

Sorry sentence missing there:

@Bollykecks I know for certain that it's virtually impossible to get the sort of credit required to obtain debts that take a working man years to pay off and represent a significant amount of his income when you've never worked a day in your life

That's hardly a controversy position to take

hsegfiugseskufh · 16/11/2019 13:12

whats its not at all! Its easy to get into massive debt. She has an income. Youre certain of something that you clearly dont know much about!

Ellisandra · 16/11/2019 13:19

@Bollykecks nobody here knows the detail behind the debt - OP is quiet about it (other than blaming the ex and painting her boyfriend as the hero for ‘taking it on’ to avoid bailiff’s at the children’s home). Which may well mean she doesn’t actually know the true detail herself.

We do know that she has never worked. It sounds very unlikely that the credit was ever in her sole name, because of that.

So in a legal respect, he wouldn’t have been taking on HER debt - it would be a joint debt, and as the working partner the bailiffs would have picked him as their first target for recovery.

Maybe his ex lied and fraudulently took out a loan he didn’t know about in both names, and then spent it all on designer clothes that he thought came from eBay or a market knock off stall. Then yeah, he’s taken on her debt.

Maybe the debt is credit card for a holiday he begged her not to go on, but she was abusive and forced him to book it. Again, morally her debt.

Or maybe, like so many people, as a couple they lived beyond their means and that went pear shaped when they split. In which case, maybe he’s not the hero taking on her debt.

I just wouldn’t be so quick to assume it’s unfair that he has the debt. I doubt he ‘took it on’ (which paints him as good, if foolish). I expect it was in his name anyway.

One thing I have seen many times - we all tend to paint ourselves in a better light than our exes! I know I do, I know my ex does. I think it’s natural.

Because of that, I think the OP should have a small pinch of salt about the ex being responsible for the debt - unless she really knows the details!

hsegfiugseskufh · 16/11/2019 13:21

ellis you missed the bit about the ex getting an income from her parents.

hsegfiugseskufh · 16/11/2019 13:23

And even if it is joint debt she should be paying half of it back. But seemingly its ok that she doesnt.

PegasusReturns · 16/11/2019 13:26

bolly who lends significant sums of money against money received from mum and dad??

hsegfiugseskufh · 16/11/2019 13:46

If its classed as an income... quite a lot of people.

SansaSnark · 16/11/2019 13:55

I think your answer is to stop paying for extras and pay proper maintenance. As debt repayments reduce, maybe your DP will be able to start contributing to some extras again. If this is not affordable then he'll need to find a way of reducing his debt payments in the short term.

Any decisions about 50:50 access should be made 100% separately from decisions about money. However, I do think having the children 50% of the time and paying for 50% of everything is likely to be much more expensive than paying maintenance - is this actually affordable?

MoneyM · 16/11/2019 14:04

Were they married? I just ask because if there are still divorce proceedings to go through, then the debt will be classed as "marital debt" and she will more than likely be eligible for half (or more).

My DP was in the EXACT same position pending divorce and was able to provide statements for the debts showing large spends in women's clothing shops, fancy female hairdressers etc so, after him having paid half for years and it all was in his name, as part of the divorce the liability transferred to her. He still paid over the odds but managed to avoid a good few thousand of debt which was clearly hers. Also, she had never worked either if that's relevant.

Courtney555 · 16/11/2019 14:16

Taking everything at face value....

If the ex uses contact as a power trip to get what she wants, you remove that immediately via a court order. There's zero reason not to have one. You don't have power over her, she doesn't have it over you. As it should be.

You'd love the children 50/50. So get it via the court order. Stop procrastinating and do it. Then you've got the child contact that you really want, and zero maintenance. She's phoning you up asking for you to have them 3 days extra this week, that's more than 50% and she wants money for raising them whilst they're in your care. Forget it. Keep all records of these requests as you can bet your bottom dollar that while she's happy to hand them over whenever she can as long as she gets to rinse you too, the minute you take it to court and she realises she (quite rightly) doesn't get her handouts for her absent children, she'll act like 50/50 is a terrible idea Hmm You need to show the court that she's instigating 50/50 from you all the time, she's only objecting in court because if it's formally noted, she can't get paid for those days like she currently is.

The debt needs restructuring. If it's at a level that debt + maintenance = can't afford to put fuel in the car, then the payments are not sustainable. Of course, you will deal with the maintenance element via 50/50 contact.

There are very easy solutions here. Get on and do them.