I honestly don't understand why anyone who cares about anyone other than themselves would vote Tory.

[ilovetofu]

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/27/doctor-nhs-vote-labour-austerity-conservatives?CMP=sharebtntw&twitterimpression=true&fbclid=IwAR2JhAMh9bEiRfeALJeTzeP8ogAByuwaitNpshoQ8oEQfYLvlTc7tvJ50

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@Peanutbutteryogurt I like the name calling 👍 Shows your true colours really. I'm far from a selfish prick, and I hold no judgement towards anyone for voting how they see fit.

I will vote for what is best for me and my family, and I will continue to do so even if it garners ridicule and name calling from people like you. I don't have to explain to you, or anyone else for that matter, how I vote. No one has to explain. I have respect for anyone that makes the effort to vote even if I don't agree with how they voted.

@Deathgrip You want me to substantiate that JC is not fit to govern, according to members of his own party? Here you go, it's even a Guardian article: www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/07/former-labour-mp-ian-austin-urges-voters-back-boris-johnson

You can Google images of JC with Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness for yourself (re: terrorist sympathiser).

Labour's anti-semitism, from the Jewish Chronicle www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/joanna-lumley-john-le-carr%C3%A9-and-other-leading-figures-say-they-will-not-vote-labour-because-of-antisemitism-1.493155

I found so many articles referring to Corbyn as 'loony left' that I can't be bothered to link them all, but feel free to take a look.

Oh the irony. And just after that graph too.

Do you know what an annual deficit is? You don’t know what antisemitism is, so I have to make sure you understand basic concepts.

I don't understand why people think that being insulting will change people's minds on how they plan to vote.

Personally I will be voting Tory because Jeremy Corbyn would be dangerous as PM and because the Union wouldn't be safe in Labour's hands.

First time Tory voter. Lifelong Labour till now.

If the country is only not running an unsustainable deficit due to starving a substantial number of its inhabitants to death... that's not really good government, is it?

I think what a lot of still-going-to-vote-Conservative people might be missing is just how far to the right the Tories have moved, and quite how incompetent, spiteful and sociopathic many of the current leadership are. When even the veterans in their own party (John Major, Kenneth Clarke) are expressing serious concerns about them, it should perhaps give you some pause for thought.
Unfortunately, though, a lot of people are still more willing to demonize the people they see as Not Like Us - immigrants, people on benefits, single parents etc. And they think the Conservatives will put all these foreigners and feral peasants and weirdos back in their place: if a few of them die or are kicked out of the country, so what?

Wow! @reginafelangee - that's a big thing for a lifelong labour voter to do.
Have you considered voting lib dem instead?

“I prefer to vote for a party that has some understanding of basic economics and doesn’t bankrupt the country every time they are in government.” Erm you do know that “tories good for economy” has LONG been roundly and thoroughly disproven right?

If you are concerned about how well the economy is run the tories are the LAST party you should be voting for.

“NHS waiting times the worst they have ever been.
National debt has doubled since 2010.
Councils going bankrupt.

From the party that claim to know how to handle the economy!” Exactly

“Dear Tory voters, this Dickensian destitution is of your making.” Hear hear!

“I have been told "If you are not a socialist by the time you are 30, you have no heart. If you are still a socialist after you are 30, you have no brain"” a philosophy mostly stated by people with a vested interest in right wing politics.

“The labour leader is a terrorist sympathiser? Fuck me put down the daily mail.” Yep so tired of seeing this BULLSHIT MYTH being repeated ad nauseum

And personally I think voting Lib Dem is essentially voting Tory, looking at their, and particularly jo Swinsons voting record rather than what they’re saying which is designed to attract votes but has no basis in their actions, they are clearly tories in all but name and if the result is such that a coalition is necessary to form a govt I have no doubt they will go Tory rather than labour whatever they’re saying now.

“Pretty sure the shit started with labour.” Based on what? And which labour govt?

Deathgrip I now ignore icecreamandcandyfloss, their views on families and personal responsibility are so extreme I no longer consider them genuine.

“It’s the people who do rely on public services, do use the NHS, do send their kids to state schools yet vote Tory anyway that are so difficult to understand. They vote against their own self-interest, which is crazy.” I agree I find that utterly bewildering! I have a few among my circle who vote Tory, a couple are independently wealthy and plain don’t “get it” but the ones who are disabled, elderly, constantly complaining that the nhs and other services aren’t being funded well but still vote Tory confuse fuck out of me!

“that have allowed us to reach record unemployment)” talk about a Freudian slip! 😂 you’re right, but I don’t think you meant to be!

“The risk that Scotland tries to go independent anytime soon would destroy both us and them, no one is talking about this enough and for me this risk is far too great to take” I don’t necessarily agree it would be a disaster for Scotland BUT what I am confident of is that a Tory win would make independence MORE likely not less!

“I’d rather see a strong economy with strong investment in public services and a focus on growth” which tories have patently FAILED to achieve/do.

Wow! @reginafelangee - that's a big thing for a lifelong labour voter to do.
Have you considered voting lib dem instead?

Not really - you have to consider the age of self proclaimed lifelong labour voters. Any under the age of 40 won't until recently have been presented with the option of a traditional Labour Party but may well have voted for new labour in the past

@ilovetofu I voted Lib Dem in the Europeans and Council elections.

But in the general it's about who we want to form the government. The Libdems can't do that.

And in the seat I live in they are unlikely to get more than 10% of the vote. So it's Tory for me.

Also I'm Scottish so saving the Union is the most important issue for me. Whilst the Zlin Dems are solid on that a Tory Govt is the best way to make sure of it.

Do you think the country is in better shape now than in 2010? Honestly?

In 2010 there were very few homeless people in my town - now there are so many

In 2010 there were no food banks - now there are several

In 2010 there was a library in my area - this has now shut due to council cuts

In 2010 my DCs primary school could afford toilet rolls and stationery - now they fundraise and ask for parents donations of basic supplies

In 2010 my DCs school could offer swimming lessons and residential trips for years 5 & 6 - now they can only do the minimum requirement for Year 6

In 2010 my town had a health centre - this is now shut down and the land sold off for development

In 2010 I was reasonably confident that I could rely on the NHS - now I am not

Oh, you’re talking about the deficit - you mean this deficit?

Showing that Labour weren’t running at a great deficit - and in fact running at a surplus for two years - until the global financial crisis?

The deficit that Osborne promised would be cleared by austerity measures by 2016, but weren’t?

That emergency budget in 2010 also said this: “In order to place our fiscal credibility beyond doubt, this mandate will be supplemented by a fixed target for debt, which in this parliament is to ensure that debt is falling as a share of GDP by 2015-16.”

You can see how well that worked out in the graph in my previous post. Reducing the deficit is one thing, but debt as a percentage of GDP is another.

A country’s economy is not like a household budget. Austerity may have helped to pay the deficit down (eventually) but it also slows the country’s economic growth. You might want to have a look at this.

@BackInTime QUITE. How anyone can say that life in the UK is better now is simply having a break from rational thought and reality. The last nine years have been a shambles. Things now are DIRE.

@Graphista I'm 45. I first voted Labour in 1992 - 27 years ago.

@Graphista I would also take issue with your assertion that the aberration we have presently is a 'traditional' Labour Party.

It's nothing of the sort.

What I don't understand is how people voting Tory can sit back and think 'I'm OK, my family are OK, they're doing a great job.'

Every single one of us, all of us, including those who have high paying jobs are only one heart attack, stroke, car crash or diagnosis of a progressive and serious health condition away from needing to access state benefits. You have a good job with great sick pay? Fab. But they won't pay sick benefits forever. And neither will your private health care policy.
Both will ditch you when you've exhausted your entitlement and then you will have to apply to the state for support. The state that deems people terminally ill with cancer as fit for work, the state that deems people with significant and life long learning disabilities as fit for work, the state that deems people with significant physical disabilities as being no longer entitled to PIP and therefore no longer entitled to a Motability car so they can't actually travel to work, have to give up their job and start the ridiculous process of attending the Jobcentre to find work.

I worked for DHSS/DSS/DWP for over 30 years. I don't anymore thank goodness. We went from being an organisation that actually helped people in their time of need to one that seems to actively make life as difficult as possible for the people it should be trying to help.

All you people voting Tory - is this how low you want the welfare safety net to be slung? You do realise surely that you might need it one day? You might not want to think about it but give it some thought. If you or your OH had a heart attack/stroke/car crash/diagnosis of a serious and progressive illness tomorrow that meant you/they couldn't ever return to work, how would you manage financially? Could you still work full time and provide the care your OH needs? Could you pay all the bills from your one wage?

I know it was Labour who brought in the medical assessments and I absolutely didn't agree with it then. But the Tory party have taken it up and turned it into something far, far worse.

There'll be no safety net if there's another Tory government. But it's there to look after all of us. You'll miss it when it has gone.

*Graphista I would also take issue with your assertion that the aberration we have presently is a 'traditional' Labour Party.

It's nothing of the sort.*

I’m old enough to remember the traditional Labour Party in the pre Blair days. That’s what this one is. New Labour was the aberration.

and now Labour throws in "free broadband for all!" - it's not free, it's just that someone else is paying- like all of Labour's policies.

The Tories privatised part of probation, under estimated the number of high risk offenders causing an unmanageable workload for the NPS which put the public at risk.

It was an expensive and dangerous plan. Probation officer unions pointed out the flaws and were ignored.

I’m old enough to remember the traditional Labour Party in the pre Blair days. That’s what this one is. New Labour was the aberration.

Indeed New Labour were the aberration - they actually won elections!

So did Attlee, Wilson and Callaghan. Attlee won the biggest landslide in history.

Everyone likes to talk about the policies labour suggest. How ridiculous they are etc. No one likes to talk about what the Tories have done in the last however many years, how they keep sticking the boot in to the poorest of the country. Homelessness, food banks you name it.

These type of heated debates were going off when Blair was in power. But in reverse. Remember “nanny state”?

Call me naive but I don’t think Boris is a racist or Jeremy is a terrorist sympathiser. People love to dramatise I do think Corbyn is ashamed that he never became Che Guevara and therefore surrounds himself with dodgy, anti-democratic types and is also an ineffectual leader. And Boris is a tactless, overconfident, middle class buffoon who speaks before he engages his brain.

I do agree with the irony of people accusing Tory voters of acting selfishly while Labour voters are voting for a party they perceive will allocate them more in the handout of resources as a PP put it.

I used to broadly agree with the OP's view to be honest, but some of Corbyn's proposals are so mad that I really don't know what I'll do.

Well said on page 4 Deathgrip. I hope that shuts a few people on here up, although they probably zoned out looking at all those stats (too much mental effort) and were just waiting for a short and sweet sound bite.

I've voted Labour all my life and am considering voting Tory for the first time. Don't blame me, blame Corbyn and Momentum for alienating many of their supporters and rendering them unelectable. Blame the Lib Dems for stating they don't want the support or votes from women like me. And the Greens are just as bad for their misogyny. Out of my local candidates the Conservative is the least offensive by a mile.