I honestly don't understand why anyone who cares about anyone other than themselves would vote Tory.

[ilovetofu]

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/27/doctor-nhs-vote-labour-austerity-conservatives?CMP=sharebtntw&twitterimpression=true&fbclid=IwAR2JhAMh9bEiRfeALJeTzeP8ogAByuwaitNpshoQ8oEQfYLvlTc7tvJ50

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They’re investigating because they received a number or complaints and were asked to. I would hazard a guess this is a lot to do with the press only talking about antisemitism within the Labour Party and no other.

you've missed the point - the point is that you've got one individual on the tory side that's a knob, versus a collective labour top team on the other side where multiple allegations against anti semitism have been made.

I struggle to characterise BJ, I've got no respect for him and am not voting for them, but Labour's response to anti-semitism that affects their top team and multiple members of it was lukewarm at best and I trust the jewish community to know what's what. I don't think they're advising voting tory either...,

It grows on the magic money tree @Greggers2017.

Deathgrip

If the rail industry run by the government was such a great business and such a fantastic money making industry why did it get privatised in the first place

(Because it was shit. The trains would run when someone decided they could be arsed to turn up for work. I was left on more than one occasion in various stations miles from my destination because the driver had come on his shift late and so hadn’t completed his journey so just left the train in a station full of passengers whilst he walked off the job.

Had to get the station staff to organise a coach to take us to our destinations on a regular basis)

Governments should stick to running the country and not businesses.

Do you need to understand why other people vote the way they do?

Yes! People really DO need to understand this. That’s why we’ve ended up in the current shit show.

I know to very rich men that wont vote labour. Not surprising, people probably have them pegged as selfish men who dont think of anyone else.

I live in a poor ex mining town. These men set a business up here, on the edge of town. Employ 2000 across the country. Over 300 for the local area. Their presence attracted more businesses to the area.

Now people in this ex mining town have a choice. They can travel to the nearest city, or hop on a bus and travel 20 minutes down the road to one of several business that employ people and pay well. Or they can go and work in a warehouse nearby, for a lot less money. Until these business came, the warehouses were pretty much the only decent stable in employers in the area. But poorly paid.

The 2 business men are concerned about labour because Corbyn has no fucking clue. They dont want their business to make less money for themseleves and for the people they employ. For the local sports teams they sponsor, the work they do with local colleges to get people into a highly skilled trade, from the local area.

They donr want to be less wealthy. But they are mainly concerned with the people who relay on them.

These 2 men are also very involved in government because of the nature of what they do. They wont vote labour. But because they feel obliged to continue to help the local community.

Its quite nice that people who work for them know they have a good employer who pays them well and gives them good working conditions. No one cares that they wont vote labour. They trust them to do what they can for the good of the company and employees.

That's the problem.....people don't care about anyone other than themselves - or don't care enough if nothing else.

It beggars belief that anyone believes the crap that all the political parties spout or takes it at anything more than face value.

I don't get it either. Either deluded or selfish or ignorance or .......?

flowerpowerr Why is the Jewish Chronicle calling for British Jews to not vote Labour? Because the Jewish community is traditionally conservative.
oliversmumsarmy what a load of shite you talk about the rail industry. It is worse now than it has ever been (outside of London). Very badly managed and controlled. It needs state intervention.

JimmyGrimble I live on yorkshire. Its shit. But it worse under labour here.

We’ve had nine years of the Tories and I cannot think of anything that has got better. The nation has never been more divided thanks to the disastrous referendum - held to keep the Tory party together! Aside from that, NHS waiting times are at their worst in years, schools are so underfunded that teachers are having to buy stationery and sometimes even bog roll out of their own pockets, homelessness is up, food bank use has rocketed, traffic in many places is an absolute nightmare because the public transport alternatives are inadequate and grossly overpriced... and none of this is inevitable. The Tories are promising to sort the very problems they have created. Cut 21,000 police officers and then a few years later ... drum roll ... we will put 20,000 more officers on the streets! They assume we’re all thick and will suck up their bull - we’re not.

Oh and my personal belief, despite deep hatred of our current government, is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with voting for your own needs and priorities.

Agreeing with this and the poster who stated they didn't see how anyone could happily vote for any current group, it would be best of a bad bunch.

I have no idea who to vote for. Lies and uselessness is on all sides. For the first time I'm considering spoiling ballot as i can't bring myself to not go at all.

If the rail industry run by the government was such a great business and such a fantastic money making industry why did it get privatised in the first place

Is that a serious question? If you remember British rail then I’m sure you remember the ideology of the government in that era? The false economy of privatisation was a cornerstone of their policy.

(Because it was shit. The trains would run when someone decided they could be arsed to turn up for work. I was left on more than one occasion in various stations miles from my destination because the driver had come on his shift late and so hadn’t completed his journey so just left the train in a station full of passengers whilst he walked off the job.

Trains aren’t exactly great now. They’re also almost the most expensive in Europe (only discounted advanced fares are better value than other countries), and amongst the least reliable. Why do you think this sort of privatisation makes a service more efficient? There’s only competition when tender time rolls around, in between consumers have no choice over which train company they use. That doesn’t lead to improvement in service, it’s a monopoly which is never good for consumers. How do you think having to factor in profits makes a service more efficient?

Governments should stick to running the country and not businesses.

Have you spent much time in Europe? Government-run transport doesn’t have to mean ineffective.

Despite privatisation, by 2011 the government spent 3x more per year on rail than we did in the days of British rail. A bit like how the American government spend more per capita on healthcare than we do. It’s what happens when you privatise a service - you make that service increasingly expensive.

If the tories get back in, in years to come people will be talking about the NHS like you’re talking about BR - oh it was shit, people were waiting a year for an operation and couldn’t get a doctors appointment.

And no mention of your inaccurate claim that this would cost billions? Shocking.

Because the Jewish community is traditionally conservative.

No the Jewish community are traditionally labour. As my grandma who is very very old told me last week “no Jew would have dreamed of voting conservative” obviously that’s not entirely true but Jews have traditionally been very strong labour supporters

Deathgrip And yet Labour haven't said they will end the welfare freeze. The want to replace UC with some new system at some point in the future (prob 2030 like everything else) that will cause even more problems. Oh, and Labour don't actually have any policies yet. The manifesto isn't out. But we can already see the push towards freebies for the rich just like in the 2017 one. Free broadband for all! But please don't notice it's not for another 2 elections at least.

MaMaMaMySharona
A few things about your post at 08.14:
Jeremy Corbyn was actually considered quite vital in getting it voted through. He was even awarded the Sean MacBride peace prize.
It’s not that hard to find this information, and it’s very well documented
Where is that documented? Skwawkbox? You are correct in saying the Peace Process was well documented. Corbyn was never a part of it. He has never even claimed to be involved. The pure fiction - no, lies - that he was involved is utterly ridiculous. It's like the truth doesn't matter.

A lot of the major newspapers are run by billionaires who keep all their money offshore (very representative of the normal UK citizen) and they do not want a labour government so they never print this stuff
What, like the Guardian?

You look like a right plonker when you call JC a terrorist sympathiser Yet his own words, letters, behaviour, campaigns, friendships, even arrests speak for themselves.

Also, there is strong evidence to suggest there is more antisemitism in the Conservative party than the Labour Party First, there isn't. Second, Labour is riddled with it - look at the scandals over the last couple of weeks and the member forums are cesspits. Third, there shouldn't be any racism at all in Labour so saying oh, they might be more racist than us isn't really a defence.

JimmyGrimble

At least now I can get on a train to Newcastle or Leeds or Manchester and can reasonably expect to get to my destination.

Not end up in Crew or Stoke or Watford or Birmingham stuck at 11pm at night having caught the train at 5pm and crawled from some Northern city towards London.

If the trains ran like they used to I wouldn’t think it was safe to use.

And yet Labour haven't said they will end the welfare freeze... Oh, and Labour don't actually have any policies yet. The manifesto isn't out.

Oh the irony, where people are categorically making statements about what Labour will and won’t do.

We don’t know yet what their benefits policy will be, so why are people talking as if they do?

Do you honestly think labour won’t have policies around trying to help those who are poorest and most vulnerable? Really?

And it’s not “freebies for the rich”. It’s a move towards digital equality. Means testing is expensive and complex, and misses borderline cases - making it universally available is the logical move if you’re going to do it.

It is all very well and good saying free broadband for all but if you haven’t got broadband then you most likely don’t have a computer
Or is everyone going to be getting a new computer as well

I get where you're coming from, OP. I've never voted Tory and I never will. Johnson isn't fit to be PM, as one nation Tories feel too. But he'll probably win (albeit likely to be the largest party in a hung Parliament) simply because he's saying he'll get Brexit done, which strikes a chord with so many voters who are sick to death of hearing about.

If we have another Tory government, I'm afraid the blame will lie squarely with Corbyn. With the disastrous mess that the Tories have created, Labour should have been well in the lead.

I'll be voting Labour because they're the only party that can beat the Tories in my constituency. But it will be with a heavy heart because Corbyn is a leader who is never going to get an overall majority in the House of Commons.

YANBU

We only know one couple who own up to voting Tory & are pro Brexit who own up to their reasoning. It's absolutely 100% selfish reasoning, predominantly BIL is rubbing his hands together over weakened workers rights & he loves zero hours contracts. SIL goes along with it as she likes the trappings of his success.

I've never had a straight answer from anyone else, usually just resort to insulting Corbyn as if that somehow justifies voting for the right wing fuckwits we currently have under the Tory banner

YANBU

88% of households in the U.K. own a computer specifically. That’s just desktops and laptops, so not including tablets and smart phones. Obviously some of those without a computer are in temporary accommodation or NFA so having a computer isn’t going to happen.

There are charities tackling digital inequality who fund computers, and computer / tech recycling charities too.

I’d love if it the government would put a computer into every house that doesn’t have one. I’m sure hardcore tory voters would be apoplectic with rage over such a suggestion.

But he'll probably win (albeit likely to be the largest party in a hung Parliament) simply because he's saying he'll get Brexit done, which strikes a chord with so many voters who are sick to death of hearing about.

If they trust him on this they’re foolish, given his previous promises about how we would absolutely definitely leave by 31st October whatever happens.

I've never really understood the angst at higher rate tax and how people go on about how they're paying '20% more' on their earnings above £50k. Well, it's not actually 20% more because the NI on earnings above £50k is only 2%. So everyone will pay 32% of their wages between the personal allowance and £50k. Anyone on more than £50k will pay 42%, so actually, it's only an extra 10% that you need to pay between £50k-£125k.

Also, the personal allowance only rose by £650 between 2018/2019 and 2019/2020 but the higher rate tax threshold rose by £3,650.

This effectively means that a higher earner would earn £650 more tax free (as would everyone) and £3,650 without having to pay the extra 10%. So this would make a higher rate tax payer £495 a year better off compared to basic rate tax payers being just £130 a year better off.

The Tory government are incredibly sneaky about how they make the better off better off. Most people wouldn't bother doing the sums. If they get in again at this election, watch carefully what they raise the personal allowance by then what they raise the higher rate tax bracket amount to. You'll probably notice that the higher rate tax bracket goes up considerably but the personal allowance won't go up by much.

If you live in Scotland, you can see that the tax thresholds and banding is much different and people earning over £43,430 a year pay the 41% tax on their earnings above that and people earning less, the personal allowance to £14,549 pay 19%. What Scotland is effectively doing is taking a little more from the higher earnings and a little less from the low earners but the same can't be said for the Westminster government.

They've managed to raise the thresholds on just about everything that a middle class/upper class person/family would have to pay tax on while taking a little bit away from the poor by introducing UC. They worked out that infact if you pay something monthly, you can give people less than you would weekly. People used to get full council tax reductions but not now really and the amount being paid in UC housing element is over all much less than what used to be paid in housing benefit. This isn't the way you do things because this causes poverty. The rich are slowly but surely getting better and better off and the poor and getting worse off.

Lots of people see the Tories as the party of aspiration.

I genuinely don't understand why when they always cut support to health and education. Two things that help people get on in life.

I know a few working class Tories. I don't think their reasons are valid or true, but they include-

Corbyn being seen as an IRA sympathiser.

Labour being seen as the party who brought about the 2008 crash

Labour being in favour of raising taxes for the working people to give to non workers

A belief that those reliant on benefits are there because of their own fecklessness

A disbelief that there is any real poverty in the UK that isn't brought on by the poor themselves.

Seeing NHS issues or education problems as a matter of inefficiency rather than under resourcing

Thinking that labour is in favour of unfettered immigration. Many people also think illegal immigrants get large amounts of benefits.

Most of these people get their political soundbites off Facebook and/or the Daily Mail and are not sufficiently interested in politics to do any other research. There are many, many people like this.