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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Women shouldn’t have careers...

276 replies

Jadefeather7 · 14/11/2019 14:19

Controversial title but hear me out.

Since I was a child I was always pushed to do well academically. My parents invested a lot in my education (financially and time wise) in the hope that I could have a good career & standard of living. My mother told me that she always resented being a SAHM and wanted her daughters to be working and independent. She told me how her mother refused to take on paid childcare when she asked her to retire early but she said she would help her daughters so that their lives would be different, especially as unlike her, her daughters had gone into higher education.

I’m now in a position where I have a great career but it involves working long hours. I’m on maternity leave and find myself pregnant again. I plan to go back for a few months before my next mat leave in order to stay on top of things. As I think about how I will manage I do feel quite stressed.

I have an hour long commute (there are no local jobs in my area) and I work with young, (mostly) single, childless people who have no lives outside of work. The expectation is that everyone puts in long hours. I don’t really want further profession and responsibility at this stage but I don’t want to be taking the piss either (which is what they would see doing 9-5 as)

I’m trying to figure out childcare. I think a nanny would be best although finding someone who will do a fixed term contract is tricky. My husband is against the idea because he thinks it’s throwing money down the drain. It’s a lot of money but I feel like it’s worth it to maintain my career in the long run. His job is very pressurised as well. He wants us to use a childminder. I know that would mean extra stress for me as I would have to try to rush back to do pick ups, laundry, meals etc.

I was talking to my mum about going back to work and she started trying to put me off and told me that I should become a SAHM or take an extended career break (which she knows is career suicide).I felt really upset that after everything she had dreamed off for me, that she would say that.

Most of the women I know who have demanding careers have had a lot of support from their families. I know however that there are so many of you on here who manage with paid childcare, but my mum keeps making me doubt that it’s possible. If you are one those, please tell me it’s possible?

I really love my job. It was a huge part of my life for 10 years and I feel like my family don’t value it.

I’m starting to feel like women can’t have ‘careers’ and only suit having ‘jobs’. Plenty of people seem to manage somehow doing part time 9-5 jobs.

Was it a silly idea to put so much into my education and end up in this sort of career? I feel like all my hard work will end up just being a waste of time.

OP posts:
Jadefeather7 · 14/11/2019 15:49

Part time in my industry is very rare. I will request 4 days but that’s the best I am going to get.

OP posts:
hettie · 14/11/2019 15:50

mmme, Don't you mean parents shouldn't have careers?
I have a career, it is of course possible. I also have a dh who is very senior in his career. The difference between you and I it seems is that my dh would do everything possible to support his parenting role and thus enable my options. We have both (in different ways and at different times) have had to compromise and put our choice to have children first. Dh and I divvy up school/club commitments. We have good (but not cheap) childcare options and the domestic load is shared equally actually, to be fair he does more as I am very messy
Everyone always tells me how lucky I am Confused essentially because he isn't a dick. I am not lucky, I would not put up with some of cockwombling idiots who think their maleness gives them priority in the career stakes that half of mumsent seems keen to remain married to......
Get angry, get a nanny, have a frank conversation with dh about the kids and family being his responsibility too and if you want to return to work bloody well do so....

Jadefeather7 · 14/11/2019 15:55

To be fair before I went on mat leave my husband was a lot better and he used to do a lot more around the house. My maternity leave has coincided with a period where he’s pushing for further promotion and he’s stopped doing many of the things he used to so they now fall to me as well as the childcare of course.

OP posts:
BarbaraStrozzi · 14/11/2019 15:55

You don't have a career problem, you have a husband problem.

Money down the drain? Bollocks. You could equally well interpret money paid for childcare as enabling him to continue to go out to work. Or more equitably, as preserving both your careers to maximise household earnings over the long term.

Or helping you keep a foot in the door of well paid employment as insurance against the day you finally get fed up with his antediluvian attitudes and divorce him.

shearwater · 14/11/2019 15:56

DH is a civil servant. He has told ministers that he has to leave the meeting at 4.30pm to go and pick his daughter up. When DDs were little we shared pick up and drops offs from childminder. Men can do this too.

BlingLoving · 14/11/2019 15:57

Incidentally, DH earns a fraction of what I do and is the children's primary carer. BUT it doesn't even occur to me that his career is less important. Clients sometimes ask me to work when DH is working and i just say no, even though I can earn in those two hours 5x what he does. We have regularly paid for childcare. It's a no brainer.

Jadefeather7 · 14/11/2019 16:00

Do you ladies have a ‘champion’ if sorts- someone who encourages and gives you a sense that you can do it, especially when you feel like you can’t? I feel like that’s missing in my life. This thread has been great but I need someone IRL to do that. Husband would be the obvious one.

OP posts:
mindutopia · 14/11/2019 16:02

I will also add that I think you need to sit down together and look at the financial implications of all of this - how things like tax free childcare and funded hours (when eligible for them in a few years time) and how you can balance your schedules will affect the cost of childcare. Personally, having used a lovely nursery and managed to do it without being stressed through flexible working (on both our parts) I wouldn't pay 3k a month for a nanny. Just working compressed hours and commuting less, I've managed to shave two days a week off childcare. We pay about 750 for dh to work full time, me to work 80% FTE, while doing all the drop offs and pick ups ourselves with no stress. If your dh leaving work on time 2 days a week to go to the childminder or nursery saves you 2250k a month, he may feel very differently about being a bit more flexible.

shearwater · 14/11/2019 16:02

It was really just needing to pay the mortgage and bills that drove me on. We couldn't manage on DH's salary plus the pittance I would earn from a part time school hours job. I had to keep working.

AryaStarkWolf · 14/11/2019 16:03

Do you ladies have a ‘champion’ if sorts- someone who encourages and gives you a sense that you can do it, especially when you feel like you can’t? I feel like that’s missing in my life. This thread has been great but I need someone IRL to do that. Husband would be the obvious one.

I would say my mother was always really good to me when my kids were young and she did a lot of childcare to help out. Also, my DH is and always was a fully responsible parent too, he didn't think it was my job to organise everything to do with the kids

ColaFreezePop · 14/11/2019 16:03

My maternity leave has coincided with a period where he’s pushing for further promotion and he’s stopped doing many of the things he used to so they now fall to me as well as the childcare of course.

OP this illustrates the reason why my mum and now my SILs ensure men and teenagers do their own laundry including ironing. However busy your job is it doesn't mean you opt-out of doing basic household chores.

Passthecherrycoke · 14/11/2019 16:04

I don’t have a champion really no. I just didn’t see why I should be treated any differently to a man. I don’t care if my husband doesn’t want to do it, he doesn’t get a choice

QueenofPain · 14/11/2019 16:05

“Part time 9-5 jobs”

But that’s not part time!

Brefugee · 14/11/2019 16:06

First off you need to start scaling back on what you do - gently - so that he can work up to doing 50/50 stuff with children/home.

Then you both need to do a cost/benefit analysis of nanny/childminder and use that as a basis for your next step. For eg, you might find it a lot less stressful but more expensive with a nanny. Would you have enough left for a cleaner too? Or childminder and definite rota/plan for both of you for pick-ups/drop-offs? and a cleaner.

The key to working full time (career or just lots of hours) is to be organised (doh!) and to outsource as much as you can. Everything, ideally including cooking, shopping, cleaning, childcare. As they get older the costs should come down a bit and as they get big enough to help around the house and less aid getting dressed and so on, some of the stress goes (some of it changes into other stress, though)

I've had some awful years, but I've had some pretty good ones too. But my DH is fully behind me (no family here to help). That is the key. You have to do it as a team.

But: YABVVVU to refer to 9-5 as part-time...

Jadefeather7 · 14/11/2019 16:08

I do all the cooking because I feel bad that he’s working all day and I’m at home but actually I’m just creating bad habits

OP posts:
commanderdalgliesh · 14/11/2019 16:09

OP I am the same in that I was hugely encouraged as a child and went to a top university, got a masters degree and now have a job I love earning close to six figures (if I was still full time!)

I was stressing about going back after my second and my mum suggested I get a part time job in Waitrose. Really surprised me. I would love to work in Waitrose but I'm not going to be earning what I am now, putting money in pension etc. Was really strange to hear my mum say that with all the focus in education.

Anyway I now work three days and it's hard but manageable. It can be done.

Jadefeather7 · 14/11/2019 16:10

@Brefugee you mean a housekeeper? How do you outsource cooking, and shopping?

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 14/11/2019 16:15

Your issue is that your husband thinks his career is more important, that sorting out and paying for childcare is your responsibility and that you need to do all the sorting.

Why is he boss?

LinnetBird · 14/11/2019 16:16

Well, he can make sure he picks the kids up from childminder then.
Why isn't he doing this anyway?
I gave my career up because I wanted to, it was the right decision for me.
It isn't being selfish in choosing what you want to do, you will hardly be a good mother and wife if you are unhappy.

I do think it's possible to have career, children and husband but the husband needs to be equal not superior like yours.
Why don't you both look at pt work, then you'll both be happy.

CosmoK · 14/11/2019 16:17

I have a very demanding career and virtually no help from family. We relied solely on paid childcare. It absolutely is possible.

Nobody ever asks men these questions and men never have to worry about this.

WorraLiberty · 14/11/2019 16:19

I was talking to my mum about going back to work and she started trying to put me off and told me that I should become a SAHM or take an extended career break (which she knows is career suicide).I felt really upset that after everything she had dreamed off for me, that she would say that.

To be fair, if you told your mum you 'found yourself pregnant' on maternity leave then that's pretty valid advice in her eyes I'm sure. I'm not sure why you're upset about it?

Circumstances change (yours certainly have) and therefore so will the advice.

I really love my job. It was a huge part of my life for 10 years and I feel like my family don’t value it.

Your 'family' don't have to value your job, however your husband definitely should.

Dontdisturbmenow · 14/11/2019 16:22

It is possible and me and a number of friends have done it with no famiy help. It's hard, demand incredible organisational skills and finding energy where we think there is none left but I don't think any of us regret it.

It really isn't as uncommon as it is portrayed here.

Passthecherrycoke · 14/11/2019 16:26

We have no help and rely solely on day nursery. We have many friends via the nursery and they’re all in the same boat so it’s not uncommon, I think it just depends who you know. You probably haven’t come across it because until now you haven’t been involved with nursery/ nannies

dontalltalkatonce · 14/11/2019 16:34

Your problem is your husband and you (using mat leave as Maid of All Work leave), not your mother. She's not in charge of your life and she's certainly not beholden to provide childcare to two young kids, that is you and your h's responsibility. Your h is being a dick. 'We are getting a nanny and each paying for it' (let me guess, he's still a 50/50 guy and is probably financially abusive as well as being a sexist).

Do NOT give up your career, go part-time, cut back hours to enable a sexist like this because people like him do not improve and having a career gives you way more power and leverage in the relationship (and your pension contributions).

His sexism has to stop. His career is not more important than yours and you need to make that clear, also that you will not be using a childminder because it makes you responsible for everything and if he's so 50/50 then he does his share of the lifework or it's left undone.

I'd also stop procreating with a person like this.

Brefugee · 14/11/2019 16:35

you mean a housekeeper? How do you outsource cooking, and shopping?

not exactly - but for example you'd eat a lot more takeaways or buy more ready meals (they don't have to be unhealthy). Shopping - do it all online and have it delivered.

That kind of thing - don't wash your car yourself, have it valleted, get someone to do your ironing/washing…

Obviously you have to decide what you can afford and which things you can outsource, but basically you're aim will be to get as much bang for your buck - so if you don't mind cooking, that's ok. If you don't mind a bit of cleaning, you don't need a cleaner - that kind of thing.