Women shouldn’t have careers...

[Jadefeather7]

Controversial title but hear me out.

Since I was a child I was always pushed to do well academically. My parents invested a lot in my education (financially and time wise) in the hope that I could have a good career & standard of living. My mother told me that she always resented being a SAHM and wanted her daughters to be working and independent. She told me how her mother refused to take on paid childcare when she asked her to retire early but she said she would help her daughters so that their lives would be different, especially as unlike her, her daughters had gone into higher education.

I’m now in a position where I have a great career but it involves working long hours. I’m on maternity leave and find myself pregnant again. I plan to go back for a few months before my next mat leave in order to stay on top of things. As I think about how I will manage I do feel quite stressed.

I have an hour long commute (there are no local jobs in my area) and I work with young, (mostly) single, childless people who have no lives outside of work. The expectation is that everyone puts in long hours. I don’t really want further profession and responsibility at this stage but I don’t want to be taking the piss either (which is what they would see doing 9-5 as)

I’m trying to figure out childcare. I think a nanny would be best although finding someone who will do a fixed term contract is tricky. My husband is against the idea because he thinks it’s throwing money down the drain. It’s a lot of money but I feel like it’s worth it to maintain my career in the long run. His job is very pressurised as well. He wants us to use a childminder. I know that would mean extra stress for me as I would have to try to rush back to do pick ups, laundry, meals etc.

I was talking to my mum about going back to work and she started trying to put me off and told me that I should become a SAHM or take an extended career break (which she knows is career suicide).I felt really upset that after everything she had dreamed off for me, that she would say that.

Most of the women I know who have demanding careers have had a lot of support from their families. I know however that there are so many of you on here who manage with paid childcare, but my mum keeps making me doubt that it’s possible. If you are one those, please tell me it’s possible?

I really love my job. It was a huge part of my life for 10 years and I feel like my family don’t value it.

I’m starting to feel like women can’t have ‘careers’ and only suit having ‘jobs’. Plenty of people seem to manage somehow doing part time 9-5 jobs.

Was it a silly idea to put so much into my education and end up in this sort of career? I feel like all my hard work will end up just being a waste of time.

I would definitely agree a month of SPL would do him the world of good!

What conclusion have you come to OP?

I must say that your DH's attitude reminds me of the way corporations externalise costs to increase their profit margins- so for instance it might be more profitable to manufacture a car with higher emissions but the cost of that is borne by the environment and people's lungs. It's cheaper for companies to state "may contain nuts" on its product than to perform proper due diligence to ensure it doesn't.

Your DH selecting a childminder will save him money but there will be a cost to be borne for this and you have correctly identified that the cost will be borne by you.

Unfortunately it is not possible to force your DH to carry his weight- I know this from bitter experience. If you split he would, as PP have said almost certainly not do a fair share either. From what I can work out in this respect the only way to force a partner to step up would be to leave him with the children. He would then be in the position to have to negotiate with you rather than the other way around. It's like an obscene game of "chicken".

Not suggesting you do this by the way but sharing my musings on the topic.

We had a chat about it last night and he has agreed to the nanny. I think a lot of his initial reluctance is down to ignorance and not realising how much a nanny will help. Although I did try to explain that to him it didn’t seem to register until I was a bit more assertive about it.

Now my issue is that nannies don’t seem to want a fixed term contract! I really hope I can find someone who isn’t a 17 year old that has never looked after a child before.

Couldn't you just find a nanny and then ask for a fixed term contract after a month or so, if it's working out? It's such an intimate job. It makes sense to me that they don't want to be stuck with a family they can't get on with.

Do you mean to not tell them it’s a time limited role at the beginning?

The issue isn’t that they don’t want to get stuck, it’s that they all want permanent roles

Couldn't you just find a nanny and then ask for a fixed term contract after a month or so, if it's working out?

Because it's a truly shitty thing to do someone, to mislead them over the terms of the job. Would you appreciate it if someone employed you, then told you after you started or were offered, 'Actually, it's only temp'?

Try an agency, Jade.

I don't think it would be a good idea to not be upfront at the beginning.

OP as much as I loved my DH I chose to never rely on the fact that he would always be there. This meant that when we had children we used childminders and wrap around care so that we could both still work full time. We knew that if anything happened to either of us, one of us would be left having to support the children.

Our worse case scenario came true a few years ago when he sadly died from cancer and I was widowed in my 30's. Luckily enough I was in a position where I could still work and use childcare as I had been able to progress in my profession over the years to a point where I can afford to support us on my wage alone.

I would say to any woman ( or man) as much as you love your partner, you also need to be in a position career wise where should the worse happen, you and your children will still be financially secure.

Your wish to continue in mid management is every bit as valid as his wish to progress. The tax system is such that both people working on middle salaries tends to be better financially than 1 sole high earner and 1 sahp.

Childcare is a JOINT responsibility and different families will manage it differently according to their strengths. Personally either me or DH would rather do part time than have CM/nanny but that set up works for some people.

Started with childminder and went to nanny for this very reason. We couldn't do the pickups/drop offs and everything else. But then, my husband was doing half these tasks, realised it was too tricky so we hired a wonderful nanny.

If you say 'it'll just fall to you' then you have to make sure it doesn't. Your husband will soon realise the value of a nanny then.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I'd be upfront about the time limit and go to an agency.

From his POV the cost of a nanny is investment in having a happy wife and a wife who might earn more money in the future.
Or he could do it just because he, you know, loves you.

@Emmapeeler1 @commanderdalgliesh

The extent to which my mother’s words effect me is not good. I have her voice at the back of my head constantly telling me that I can’t do this. When I was talking to her about my intention to go back to work I mentioned a few friends in similar sorts of jobs who had done it recently and she said to me “well they are really tough people”. Do you have any advice on how to overcome this?

The other thing that really bothers me about it, is that my sister struggled with her career at the start. My mum used to be so worried that she would give it all up because she found it too hard. She kept pushing her to keep going. Whereas with me she’s actively discouraging me now from continuing with mine. I just don’t get it.

Yeah I had that with my mum, it affected lots of thing that I did, degree course, not going into teaching, journalism, the things I fancied doing, the implication being I wasn’t a strong enough person. My sister on the other hand (who is admittedly very different to me in personality) was actively encouraged from day one in everything she did. But everything I suggested there was always a reason not to do it, which made me doubt myself.

However, you have clearly been highly successful in your job and because your work forms part of your self-identity I think you may really struggle if you give that up. I find the less information I give my mum the better on certain issues (that I know she’ll talk me out of) so I would personally make all the arrangements without involving her and just be vague! You could even make something up, eg you have to go back anyway to get your full maternity pay so you’ll see how it goes blah blah. Thinking of going back to work is much harder than doing it once you have started and you will soon slot into a pattern, once you have found the right nanny. Could you use an agency for a nanny?

Thanks. It’s good to know I’m not the only one that has these sorts of issues with their mother. I think I put too much importance on getting her validation for decisions that I make. That’s a mindset that I need to somehow get out off. I should probably start by not talking to her about it.
I’m going to look into agencies if I don’t get anywhere by next week. I’ll just have to suck up the extortionate fees they charge!

Don't sacrifice your career for what in reality is a short space of time. Yes, a nanny will be expensive in the short term but against the sum of cumulative lost earnings if you do commit 'career suicide', I'm sure it's ultimately more cost effective.

Money aside, just because you become a mother doesn't mean you lose your other interests, motivations and passions. I love my son but I also love working. I'd be a terribly dull SAHM.

We went with the nursery route which DS adores, and will manage pick ups through a combination of my working 4 days, DH's shift pattern and my retired mum who loves to help out with her GC. We also both have supportive employers who are willing to be flexible with the odd late start/early finish.

We'll be in our forties by the time both DC are at secondary school and can be a little more independent, definitely young enough to go for promotion still if that's what we want.

So you're going to employ the nanny for a few months then get rid of her when dc2 comes?

Then employ another nanny when you go back to work again?

It will indeed be very hard to find someone to do only - what - 4/5 months? Best bet is an agency. Even better keep on the nanny during your mat leave and make life much easier for yourself. Admittedly this is the £££ option but I'd do it if I could

Definitely use an agency and pop over to the Nanny board for some proper advice from other nannies. But do NOT jack in your career for someone who isn't a team player.

Of course you can have a career and be a mother

I had my first two in my twenties - I was earning £42k and virtually every penny of that went on childcare. It was tough and felt relentless at times but as I progressed the extra money paid for additional conveniences and it became easier.

By the time I was in my thirties I'd had two more DC but was earning significantly more and the DC needed less childcare so we transitioned from a very pricey nanny to a less pricey housekeeper.

As I got more senior I was able to hand off some of the late nights and travel to more junior team members, I had increasing flex over my diary and whilst I'm very rarely truly switched off I manage to drop the DC at schools most days and attend assemblies, sports matches, recitals etc.

Now despite a very senior role I have a pretty good work life balance and enough money to not worry and do as I wish.

I've made some mistakes along the way - most notably the four day week that never was but I don't regret continuing to work.

What do you want to do? If you want to work , and use a nanny , do that. Tell your husband that you can't cope with the things that come with a childminder. It does cost a lot but only for a short time. I left work as we had twins. It's not the end of the world and I enjoy staying at home for the time being. Just do what you want and ignore your mum.

Sadly I think we still live in a time where women can’t have it all.

Career .v. Time with your children.

I doubt there’s many women who have equal time with both. Something has to give.

Never seems to be the case with men though.