Women shouldn’t have careers...

[Jadefeather7]

Controversial title but hear me out.

Since I was a child I was always pushed to do well academically. My parents invested a lot in my education (financially and time wise) in the hope that I could have a good career & standard of living. My mother told me that she always resented being a SAHM and wanted her daughters to be working and independent. She told me how her mother refused to take on paid childcare when she asked her to retire early but she said she would help her daughters so that their lives would be different, especially as unlike her, her daughters had gone into higher education.

I’m now in a position where I have a great career but it involves working long hours. I’m on maternity leave and find myself pregnant again. I plan to go back for a few months before my next mat leave in order to stay on top of things. As I think about how I will manage I do feel quite stressed.

I have an hour long commute (there are no local jobs in my area) and I work with young, (mostly) single, childless people who have no lives outside of work. The expectation is that everyone puts in long hours. I don’t really want further profession and responsibility at this stage but I don’t want to be taking the piss either (which is what they would see doing 9-5 as)

I’m trying to figure out childcare. I think a nanny would be best although finding someone who will do a fixed term contract is tricky. My husband is against the idea because he thinks it’s throwing money down the drain. It’s a lot of money but I feel like it’s worth it to maintain my career in the long run. His job is very pressurised as well. He wants us to use a childminder. I know that would mean extra stress for me as I would have to try to rush back to do pick ups, laundry, meals etc.

I was talking to my mum about going back to work and she started trying to put me off and told me that I should become a SAHM or take an extended career break (which she knows is career suicide).I felt really upset that after everything she had dreamed off for me, that she would say that.

Most of the women I know who have demanding careers have had a lot of support from their families. I know however that there are so many of you on here who manage with paid childcare, but my mum keeps making me doubt that it’s possible. If you are one those, please tell me it’s possible?

I really love my job. It was a huge part of my life for 10 years and I feel like my family don’t value it.

I’m starting to feel like women can’t have ‘careers’ and only suit having ‘jobs’. Plenty of people seem to manage somehow doing part time 9-5 jobs.

Was it a silly idea to put so much into my education and end up in this sort of career? I feel like all my hard work will end up just being a waste of time.

The reason is because his career is more important because he wants to progress, whereas I am happy to continue in my mid management role.

Well that’s just tough shite. He’s got a young family, he needs to prioritise fitting his career round his parenting responsibilities.

In answer to your q I have a career and kids, as di all my friends and colleagues. It is possible to find decent high quote “career” jobs that will support a work life balance. Find one of those.

If he's still not budging then you need to lay it straight. Breakfast meetings? No, you wont be able to go. Entertaining clients after work? Sorry, but you're scheduled to pick-up, cook dinner and clean the babies' dirty arses that night. There will have to be no excuses and no movements on your schedule because otherwise you will be lumbered and most likely hung, drawn and quartered at work.

If he's not willing to pick up 50% of the slack if he's so desperate for a childminder, then he's living in a dream world.

His career is not more important than yours.
It doesn't matter if he gets paid more, that it not the point.

Do you think all those women who had children & let their career take second place to their husbands who are now single parents on lower wages than they would have been are glad they put 'his' career first?

I'm not saying that will be you, but you just never know until it's too late to do anything about it.

Childcare is not YOUR responsibility all by yourself just because you are a woman when you are supposedly in a partnership with the other parent of the child.
It is equally HIS responsibility too.
Why doesn't he look at taking on some of the strain?

Or does he think depositing sperm inside you was all of his required input in these children?

Get a nanny - I've had nannies and used childminder, and whilst my childminder was lovely I had to pack the kids a lunch, and a little bag, I had to be there on time to pick them up, and she couldn't take them when they were sick.

My nannies (or now the kids are a little older, really more of a mother's help/housekeeper - one in each place we've lived) have been much better at fitting in with our needs - some of them have done the family shop, some of them have done the family washing (depending on duties and expectations ahead of time), or left food for DP and me to eat that evening - all of them have looked after the children and meant that I haven't had to worry or rush around, or panic if I'm stuck in traffic. Worth every penny.

Oh, and what brought it home to my DP was when I sat down with our schedules, (mine and the kids) and asked to divvy up pickups and drop offs. Once he had to say out loud that he wasn't prepared to commit to any of them, it became clear that a nanny was the only option.

With the right nanny you can text and say I’ll be late back - the difference between destroying any calm you have and just working like loads of men with sahp a do.

Sorry I did t mean 9-5 jobs are part time I was referring to a jobs where you can do part time easily say 2 days a week and only have to work 9-5 as compared with a job where you’re working longer hours and the opportunities for part time are much more limited.

As a single parent with 3 children I managed my career by going part time and using a childminder. I wouldn't say it was career suicide however I chose to stay at a certain level for 10 years in order to give my children the time I felt they should have from me. When all dc were in school I chose to progress my career to the next stage, in the intervening years I'd passed over promotion but still put my all into my job and continued professional development so when the time came I was able to go for promotion (got the first one I applied for and was probably seen as a good candidate in a female dominated profession as I wasn't going to go off on maternity leave again!) yes I was many years behind my peers on the career ladder however I chose to see that as a positive investment in my dc and also I had other experience to bring to my role. Unfortunately I had to retire due to ill health in my late 30s which wasn't part of the plan. No we can't have it all without sacrificing something but in a two parent family maybe both should consider short term sacrifice. In hind sight I'd do the same again my dc are off to college and secondary school next year and are growing up fast but I had the opportunity to spend quality time in those first years with them but still maintain a career that then albeit cut short was able to progress so I feel I had the best of both worlds.

It’s so good to hear positive stories of women who have managed to maintain their career and also to know that a nanny is what we really need. I was really doubting myself on this.

Society needs to change so that most jobs aren't so full on that they damage family life. The more people refuse to work long hours as a norm- men and women, whether or not they have families, the better it will be for everyone. Especially if we are expected to work longer, until at least 68. People cannot keep flogging their guts out in stressful jobs.

I don't agree that it's impossible for women to have a career, but I agree it's pretty impossible not to have to make concessions and lose out, and not get to where you want as quickly somewhere along the line due to having a family.

I wouldn't swap what I do now for a non-career job for anything in the world, but when the kids were small I did burn out and had to do something else that wasn't my career job for a couple of years.

I'm very lucky though that I can work 2 days a week from home, 9-5 when I'm in the office, and earn more than twice the average salary, and probably a bit more than DH. It's have a career that has led to this, I'd be working much harder for far less money in far less pleasant conditions if I did 35 hours a week at Tesco.

Having qualifications and a career gives you options. It means you can work in a variety of ways, you can work for yourself, and it gives you access to a much wider job market. It means you can always be financially independent from a man You simply cannot underestimate the value of this. Even up until the 1970s, women had to rely on a man financially - you couldn't buy a house on your own as women weren't allowed mortgages or goods on HP. Don't ever wish this away.

I can understand how hard it is, OP, but your qualifications and career give you so many more options as to how you can work, and I hope both you and your DH can work together to make it work for all of you.

if you can afford a nanny, even if it’s a stretch , then hire one. If he doesn’t want one, then he needs to do at minimum 1/2 of morning prep, and 1/2 of drop offs and pick ups. Even with the nanny, he needs to count on being the person home on time to relieve the nanny at least twice a week (or let you go in early some days while he handles the pre-nanny time in the morning)

I’ve been incredibly lucky in that I’ve been able to keep up my highly skilled profession as a half-time employee. Working half time I make as much as highly skilled, But more ubiquitously available skills, profession DH working full. He still takes on some of the child logistics, not half because we have me with a flexible schedule on purpose, but sometimes I have to work late or travel and it’s just expected he will cover that.

Is it really worth seeing your kids so little to progress in a career? 8am-6pm in a nursery is a long day, especially for a little child with no concept of time. Many people want the money, the big house, fancy cars and put up with years of stress at work, and hardly see their kids. I'm not sure it's worth it. If possible, part time hours are ideal, if an employer is open to that and it's affordable. Better than sticking your kids in some kind of childcare all day, every day with someone who is inevitably clock watching till you can pick them up! Not possible for everyone but careers aren't the be all and end all. Companies drop people as soon as it suits them, but some people have a slavish devotion to their work and the idea of progression. What's it all for?

I mean, just being able to afford professional childcare I realise is such a privilege when I read these boards. So many women just cannot afford to work when their children are small.

If you can afford to hire a Nanny that would be your beat option I think. Childcare is very important and the money is irrelevant .You have worked hard in your Career, and should be able to carry on working without worrying about time schedules and so on .He is not being very fair to you really

Several people have pointed out that the problem is your husband. You haven‘t addressed this point yet continue to blame your own mum for being negative.

And for people saying "just do part time", I've managed to for most of the time since I've had kids, but the problem is that well-paid, professional part time jobs are like gold dust.

On one site I used to go on there would be like 50 part time jobs to 5,000 full time ones.

And then there are jobs that are apparently part time but are actually full time. Been there, done that, got the scars.

It's absolutely possible. But you and your partner need some flexibility in your schedules and you need to support each other.

I work full time as does my dh. We both have fulfilling careers that we love. Dh is self employed, I'm an academic. I have a very long commute (normal in academia, unless you want to move around loads), it's 3 hours door to door. I do that 3 days a week and wfh one day and have toddler one day. Though I'm soon to drop down to 3 days a week with compressed hours (80% FTE), which is partly a lifestyle choice as my commute is long and tiring, but it's also very practically a budgetary one (the funding for my salary is finite, if I work less, I can extend my contract so less likely to be unemployed in a years time).

We don't use any additional childcare. Either dh or I does the school/nursery run every day. Dh does it 3 days a week and I do it 2, some weeks that's reversed if dh needs some extra long days and I can be closer to home. We use no after school care. Eldest one gets collected at 3pm every day and youngest at 4:45 (time in between for driving and sorting out work tasks that still need to be done before end of day). We have no family help.

It's completely doable, but you have to be able to arrange a degree of flexible working and the rushing about can't always land on you. My dh is a company director. Literally the responsibility for the success of the entire company and lots of (some of them quite high profile) clients rests on him. He is just as capable of dropping things to do the school run as I am. We each know when we have our longer, less rushy days and we know the days when we have to prioritise family life instead.

I would also encourage you to think of the long game. When you are on mat leave, it's hard to see the forest for the trees. It's hard to imagine what it will be like in 4 years time when your dc are in school and hardly around much and have much more independent lives. If you have been driven and enjoyed your career until now, you may very well miss it and regret that you gave that up then. Things are even so much different at 2 and at 3. Now inevitably, you will be home for quite awhile given you have two pregnancies spaced closely together, but in a few years time, when the house is more quite and you are better rested and you have more time on your hands and less demands on you from small people, it does really help many people to have something productive to do outside of family life, whatever that may be in your circumstances.

OP your DC has 2 parents. If your husband has decided he can't parent during the working week then you both have to pay someone to help. In your case you can afford a nanny so get one.

Listen to the single mothers. Oh and would be worth reminding him if you split up he would end up parenting your DC on his own and as the DC gets older those periods would be for longer periods.

Across my old industry part time didn’t exist. 4 days a week if you were lucky but you’d usually work on your day off for 20% less money. Or squeeze five into four days.

Obviously the key issue here is my husband refusing to pay for a nanny.

On top of that however I have my mother telling me I can’t do it. Apparently my friend who works in a similar environment and has a nanny for her twins is a “superwoman” whereas I am not. Comments like that from my mother make me feel less inclined to push my husband on what I need to be pushing him on.

The only way a childminder is an option is if your DH is going to step up to do at least half of the picking up/dropping off/sorting out. And if he's NOT willing to do that (which clearly, he isn't) then yes, you need to get a nanny. And yes, it''s expensive but it is life changing and will make your life infinitely easier. Also, with two children close together in ages you will have to pay for two lots of childcare for quite a long time in which case the nanny will not be as crazy expensive compared to a childminder as you might think.

Also, getting a nanny on a fixed term contract is totally doable. Depending on when, you might find one who has children but doesn't want to work over the summer or a young nanny who wants to work for a while to save money for uni/college/travelling etc.

Another compromise, which I'm not wild about but could be a way to negotiate with your husband is both childminder and nanny. So childminder two days, nanny two days. The benefit is that if you make sure the nanny days are proper long ones, you can use those days to really be "present" at work, work late, attend events etc if necessary. A friend gave me a useful piece of advice when I returned to work - she said make sure that on the day/s I didn't need to be home, make sure I was very visible in the office late. It's pathetic, ridiculous and shouldn't be necessary but it genuinely did help to ensure that people didn't think I was only doing the bare minimum.

I had my first child quite young, and whilst I was still studying (mature student, also working full-time, so thought naively I was well placed to know about juggling big commitments etc...); I didn’t really understand about how ‘a career’ worked, and while I have no regrets and am super proud to have grown both family and career from scratch over the same period - I feel worn very very thin by it.

My children are 7 and 1, I’m working full time in a reasonably demanding job (it takes about 50 hours a week and I’m relatively efficient in that time, although am hoping to become more so and cut that time down a bit without delivering any less). I work well over my contractual hours and I often work twice as hard to demonstrate I’m just as valuable as my less tied down colleagues, BUT I have clear lines in the sand about my working hours: I drop off the kids at 8.30 and pick them up at 5.30, with almost no flexibility on that (very occasionally when it really matters and to show goodwill), and I do two days a week at home so I lose the wasted commuting time and catch up on laundry and basic batch cooking in no more time than it takes to pop to the toilet or stop for a sandwich etc. I’m incredibly lucky to be able to combine the two like this. But fuck me, am I knackered.

I can’t afford a nanny, but I do have an employer (civil service) where managers/colleagues largely feel obliged to respect the limits I impose on my working hours. In your position, I think I would get a nanny.

It’s not the career that’s the problem
It’s your lazy arse husband. They’re his children too, he needs to do 50% of the childcare

8am-6pm in a nursery is a long day, especially for a little child with no concept of time. Many people want the money, the big house, fancy cars and put up with years of stress at work

It's not just that - it's also security that if something happens to the relationship, you're not stuck unable to get back into a job, whilst your DP swans off in his highflying role built on your back.

I think there's also a difference between a 'job' and a career you love - if you love your work, you're not just doing it for money (although the money helps), you're also doing it for yourself, and I don't think women should have to sacrifice themselves for their children at every turn (although many of us absolutely would)

Also, on your mother, one thing I'd say in her defence - she probably know show hard it will be. And she probably has a good idea how useless your husband is. So she is probably, in her own misguided way, trying to protect you from that. It's the kind of thing my mother would have done. Drove me mad.