Women shouldn’t have careers...

[Jadefeather7]

Controversial title but hear me out.

Since I was a child I was always pushed to do well academically. My parents invested a lot in my education (financially and time wise) in the hope that I could have a good career & standard of living. My mother told me that she always resented being a SAHM and wanted her daughters to be working and independent. She told me how her mother refused to take on paid childcare when she asked her to retire early but she said she would help her daughters so that their lives would be different, especially as unlike her, her daughters had gone into higher education.

I’m now in a position where I have a great career but it involves working long hours. I’m on maternity leave and find myself pregnant again. I plan to go back for a few months before my next mat leave in order to stay on top of things. As I think about how I will manage I do feel quite stressed.

I have an hour long commute (there are no local jobs in my area) and I work with young, (mostly) single, childless people who have no lives outside of work. The expectation is that everyone puts in long hours. I don’t really want further profession and responsibility at this stage but I don’t want to be taking the piss either (which is what they would see doing 9-5 as)

I’m trying to figure out childcare. I think a nanny would be best although finding someone who will do a fixed term contract is tricky. My husband is against the idea because he thinks it’s throwing money down the drain. It’s a lot of money but I feel like it’s worth it to maintain my career in the long run. His job is very pressurised as well. He wants us to use a childminder. I know that would mean extra stress for me as I would have to try to rush back to do pick ups, laundry, meals etc.

I was talking to my mum about going back to work and she started trying to put me off and told me that I should become a SAHM or take an extended career break (which she knows is career suicide).I felt really upset that after everything she had dreamed off for me, that she would say that.

Most of the women I know who have demanding careers have had a lot of support from their families. I know however that there are so many of you on here who manage with paid childcare, but my mum keeps making me doubt that it’s possible. If you are one those, please tell me it’s possible?

I really love my job. It was a huge part of my life for 10 years and I feel like my family don’t value it.

I’m starting to feel like women can’t have ‘careers’ and only suit having ‘jobs’. Plenty of people seem to manage somehow doing part time 9-5 jobs.

Was it a silly idea to put so much into my education and end up in this sort of career? I feel like all my hard work will end up just being a waste of time.

I don't have a champion as such. But I do have people I look up to who inspire me within my industry.

Many people want the money, the big house, fancy cars and put up with years of stress at work, and hardly see their kids. I'm not sure it's worth it ... What's it all for?

Oh, bullshit! Many people, probably most, work because they have to to live and put food on the table and shoes on their kids' feet and now the pension age keeps rising, to try to avoid poverty in old age if they get there. It's not the 1970s anymore, cost of living is high and wages are stagnant.

Part-time is not ideal if you're funding your own pension, either.

I can only talk from my experience so appreciate not everyone has the same opportunities or support. When my first child was born I was on about £40k. I was early 30s and took a year off per baby. I has two babies in quick successions. I had a 3hr round trip commute to London and my dh was in and out of work. I was the main breadwinner and I had no choice. I needed full-time childcare, to allow dh time to look for work and interviews and also dh wasn't quite capable to have two babies on his own for 12 hours everyday (not everyone is cut out for it). I was paying probably £3000 a month childcare and I racked up £8 to £9k in debt just because if it. I had absolutely no family support at all. But maintaining my career 13 years later has now resulted in me earning 6figures and annual bonuses - one bonus pay a years childcare now!! It's really paid off. I'm in a senior role, 100% flexible working plus 2 or 3 days from, and I work hours that suit me, and I get headhunted for jobs. Plus my pension, savings, etc...leaves me in a secure position and a leg up for my kids if they need help with cash deposits for their own place to live in the future.

Dh, is also now in a senior position. We have it so good now and kids in school. They make their own way home. But it's never EVER been easy, it's been trial and error with childminders nanny's and long working hours. But I would say, is if you decide to keep your career going, yes it's possible. But you're going to have to think this is all about the long term gain. I now have an amazing CV, I am learning to play the violin as I have more control of how I work and my kids have not missed out. Because I am more around for them, can do school run, and best thing...being able to take my kids into 'bring your kids to work days' they get a sense of what the corporate world is like. I even bring them with me. This Friday I am going to Amsterdam for work meeting. We are flying out as a family for two days city trip. The big executive boardrooms, glass buildings, they get to meet Engineers etc, visit places beyond their little world at home ....they understand what is achievable.

I hope this helps.

dont let him offer excuses you are a partnership are you not

You are not painting the picture of a nice man

Make your own decisions. Some women want careers some women have jobs. It's not your mums job to validate your decisions.

Forgot to add, with me being in an equally demanding job as my dh, I push back squarely to him domestic tasks if I think he's taking the piss. It's about making sure dh does his fair share and he does. My kids see us as even and equal role models for example.. I take the car to garage and dh cleans the bathroom.

As a PP said, maybe women should start dumping those partners that do not want to do their share (which is 50/50 by the way) or understand that their partners have a career, a brain and a pension pot to grow.
I have a career I love which took me a lot of effort to achieve. If my DH wouldn't be willing for me to keep it, I would have left him a while ago.

I wondered how long it would take before the 'working'for fancy cars and holidays' brigade would appear.

I work because I want independence, financial security and...... because I bloody love my job. It's part of my identity.

@CookieDoughKid wonderful and inspiring, thank you

"Women" is not a synonym for "mothers". Your post is clearly about mothers, but by no means all women are mothers. You should correct your title.

Surely this comes down to your personal preference?
If you want to maintain your career the options are there for you, but it is you that will need to make it happen.
You don’t need your mother or husbands permission.
FWIW I used to work in a job where the running joke was the 9-5 ers were part time.
The hours were long, the pay was amazing and the opportunities great.
When I left to have my first I was on more then £100k in a senior position. I chose not to return between having my first and second and they offered me a 5 year break.
I made this decision because I wanted to leave on a high with my reputation in tact. I know with certainty that I couldn’t have returned to my previous role and performed to the same standard that I was at pre children.

@Jadefeather7
I definitely had one like that. To a degree she still wants constant entertainment with me when I am around but is happy to share when I am not. I went back to work around a year, so my daughter was older, but I never had an issue. Interview was done with both together at second interview and settling in was done over three weeks - first week, I was there all the time like play dates but tried to leave the room regularly, second week I popped off for more time, third week I did all my return to work admin and was in and out of the house as I pleased, but still there from time to time.

I kind of feel like my DD gets attention from my nanny and her child at the same time, just different attention. Obviously, the attention from my nanny is shared, but it isn't an issue. Now, I come home and they are playing kitchen, or hide and seek or whatever. Mine is just 2, nanny's nearly 3 now. If you had a bigger gap between nanny child and your own, then your little one would probably get nanny attention and big sister/brother attention together.

CosmoK I know... I find this line of argument thoroughly insulting tbh.

I know loads of people have said this or something akin to it, but the issue is your husband's bare faced cheek. I would think carefully about not prioritising my own earning ability when married to someone with that attitude.

Take a look at Pleasepleasepassthecoffee's words upthread. Look at the ways in which having a nanny can make life more manageable for both you and your husband when you return to work.

Show him a comparison between childminder option and nanny.
Childminder...You or him taking turns to race every night for that 6 o'clock deadline. Pick up tired/baby and toddler and drive on home. Get the children something to eat. One of you get dinner on other bath/change prepare both kids for bed. Don't collapse in a heap yet. Sort out the mess you left this morning in your mad dash to get out. Get a wash load on of kids stuff and sort same from drier. Get kids stuff ready for tomorrow. You've eaten and all this done ...now collapse...oh wait...its 10 o'clock and you haven't even looked at those notes for tomorrow's meeting.
Nanny ...all the things Pleaseplease talked about done. You both arrive calmly home...no detour for tired kids. Kids have been fed and all mess cleared up. They are bathed, nappy changed and all ready for a lovely bed time story. No kids washing to deal with. All planning about what they'll wear /do tomorrow sorted. No dressing them and dragging them out at an unearthly hour next morning. No racing around getting dressed yourselves while trying to give kids breakfast, get them dressed and all out the door. No finding milk or cornflakes all down your jacket just before that corporate meeting. Not worth it? If you are paying for two full time at nursery or childminder the difference is well worth it. Paint the picture for your dh, making it clear he will have to pull his weight. If you are going back after first one for a while maybe try childminder with you sticking to your guns about shared pickups ext ext. My guess is he will soon be wanting a nanny.

Oh and all this is without the arguments about whose turn it is to take time off when one of them is too sick to go to childminder. With two you will be surprised how often that happens. Good luck op.

Tell him if he insists on a child-minder, you will pay half the cost of a nanny towards it, but he will be 100% responsible for covering any tasks that wouldn't be necessary if you had nanny. So drop-offs and pick-ups will be 100% down to him. I'm guessing (maybe wrongly) that a nanny will look after sick children but a child-minder may not. In that case, he takes time off work to look after them. His work obligations will never be a reason why you have to do it. If you don't trust him to stick to that, tell him you will block his and the child-minder phones while you are at work, so it will be between them to solve any problems. Hopefully (as you have an hour commute) you leave before he does, so you will just walk out the door at the normal time, no matter what the circumstances, and he will have a choice of looking after children himself or getting them to child-minder if that's an option on that day.

See if he is up for that?

Whereabouts are you based? Here Greater London it's £6.50 per hour per child with a childminder (some may offer sibling discount) or its £11 an hour with a nanny for however many children so price wise actually better once you are paying for two children. Plus they will be cared for in their own home, more flexible hours, and as you say potentially some cooking and tidying included - you can negotiate what you expect included. The only downside to a nanny is you have to pay into their pension and sick pay, maternity pay if they go on to have their own baby!

I think in your situation a nanny makes most sense in the long run when you return to work after the second baby. How long will you be back at work in between the two babies? Is there anyway a family member or friend can help with childcare for this period or else I'd prob get a childminder for these few months but make it clear it's a fixed term contract.

@Molly2010 did you give up your career or change roles?

Your problem's not feminism. Your problem is your husband is a selfish prick.

@icecreamsundae32 Definitely will need a nanny in long term once 2nd one is born. I did wonder if family would help for this 4/5 month period but they’re not willing to

And yes I’m in Greater London

OP, I had a 36 year career as a hospital doctor, in anaesthetics and critical care. I was widowed with two babies still in nappies - staying at home certainly wasn’t an option, I had to earn a living and support my family.
I was eternally grateful that I had a proper well paid career instead of the “part time little job” that you seem to be recommending for women. I hired a nanny, put my head down and slogged my way through the next 18 years until the DC went off to uni. I gave my kids a good life and was able to fund them through uni and cover two sizeable mortgage deposits for them.
None of that would have been feasible on a minimum wage job.
Yes of course it’s exhausting - you come home shattered after a stressful day in the operating theatre, then start on all the cooking, cleaning, gardening, diy, decorating, child care etc. But without a proper professional career to support yourself, you are left stranded when your DH dies.
I would urge all women to make sure they are financially self supporting, rather than being trapped in dependency on a man who may leave or die.

What happened when you told your husband how disrespected and stressed you feel as a result of his decision to treat you like his housekeeper rather than his partner?

And what would happen if he agreed to take on certain responsibilities at work and then just made excuses and flaked out? He wouldn't, would he? He wouldn't let people down or want to be viewed as unreliable. He would make better choices.

So it's not acceptable when he does it to you. If he can be responsible, reliable and respectful at work then he can manage it at home for you.

Why don't you value yourself enough to assert yourself when he disrespects you and lets you down? Why don't you value yourself enough to say your career is important too? That your well-being is important too? That he doesn't get to unilaterally make your life unnecessarily difficult? That you deserve better from him?

It's possible to learn to be your own champion, you know. But you have to believe you deserve one first. It doesn't sound like you do.

Tbh I'm of the opinion that where financially viable both parents should aim to be in family friendly jobs when they have children. I barely saw my dad growing up, my mum worked full time too but slightly less full on and took all the "mental load" which from a child and teen point of view just meant she was always stressed and upset or cross, my most vivid memories are of her cooking dinner with her coat still on ranting about our ingratitude... She was determined she had to "have it all" but was trying to be all things to all people and was clearly miserable - we had a series of nannies growing up which was fine, we liked them, but it makes me cringe when my mother refers to having done things with us as children when actually she outsourced the experience and I vividly remember doing those things with nannies, not her.

DH had a sahm and an office hours dad - very different.

We've tried to hit a less stressful (for everyone including the children) middle ground. I'd hate to be married to a man who never saw his kids because he put his job first. I'd also hate to be a woman who did that.

I've no interest in a corner office or business class flights (though in my single years in the heady early 90s I was flown first class - not just business - by an employer, which I appreciate having experienced that once).

People have different priorities, but my personal view is both parents should strive for balance if they choose to bring children into the world.

To use a childminder one parent starts later at the office and drops the children off at 7:30 or 8am, gets to work at say 9:30, works til 6:30pm. The other goes in as early as possible, depending upon what their employer allows (my DH often starts work at 6am and finishes at 3pm - senior programmer). Flexitime rather than part time is an excellent thing where available and well worth changing employer for - worth more than any bonus.

I actually do shifts and have a lot of say over which shifts, while DH does flexitime office hours, and that's what works for us.