Single parent wants to change career into medicine, but has no support.

[Puzzledbyart]

Just out of interest. Let's say we have two primary aged school children (on the younger side of primary). Is it feasible for their single parent to go through the medical school (with a foundation year, they are in 40s, so long out of school), whilst retaining 100% custody of the children? There is no family help nearby, and no substantial savings to pay for the childcare either. Is it realistic at all?

Right OP, I understand your motives for posting as you did originally but really you’ve just made the situation much more difficult to understand (and as posters don’t always read the updates you’re going to carry on getting loads of inappropriate advice).

So as I understand:

• medicine is his lifelong dream
• but he can’t afford to fund himself so he needs 100% residency of the children so he can get various financial benefits
• but despite medicine being his dream he hasn’t looked into any of the practicalities of the course as anyone with half a brain knows that medical students don’t have “a lot of free time” and the things that universities promise about family friendly working will never come to fruition. Even if he gets on the course he will be pitted against hundreds of super bright young people so will be well down in the pecking order when it comes to job choice.

Is the course of action so that he can continue to control you or is it that he really wants to become a doctor? If the latter, he’d be better taking out loans for the course and leaving the kids with you (which I presume would be your preferred option also). And the mediator sounds bonkers - perhaps if the situation was described to her as wanting to train as a barrister under similar circumstances she might start comprehending how nonsensical it all is.

I would add also that, even though I was already a senior consultant when my son was born, in the end it made sense for my husband to retire early from his job to be there to do the parenting that I could not do. I don't have the crazy hours that a junior doctor has, but things are not predictable. I am not a trauma surgeon or anything like that, and true emergencies in my job are rare, but I can't always know what time I am going to be able to leave work. I still have on-calls, they are from home but things could happen which mean I have to go in. Someone has to be potentially completely reliably available to drop everything if my son needs picking up unexpectedly for example, or is home ill, I cannot guarantee that I would be able to do that...

The answer to whether he can do this is an emphatic no from me, for a hundred reasons.

Attempting to start a career in medicine at this stage of life is madness in my opinion. Medical school and foundation years are the (relatively) easy bit. It only gets worse when you have to start studying for professional exams which make any exams you have done up until then look like child's play. And of course you are studying in your "spare time" around antisocial working hours. There is a reason why lots of doctors have their children relatively late. There is nothing "family friendly" about a medical career. Some specialties are worse than others but there are none that make it easy.
OP, it sounds like your ex is quite deluded. Even taking the children out of the equation, if he wants a career in a hospital specialty he would be looking at starting a first Consultant post at about the same age as most sane individuals are planning their exit strategy. General Practice training takes a bit less time, but he would still be mid to late 50s when he finished. And to think that he could have sole care of your children whilst doing this is even more crazy. It is not impossible to combine medicine and caring for children of course but it is very tough, especially as a single parent. I have several friends who are single parents and have successful medical careers, but they have had support from other sources such as parents and/or live in nannys. And they didn't start when they were already middle aged! Why anyone would willingly put themselves into such a position is beyond me. I can't see any judge siding with someone who has such little insight and I can't see his plan succeeding anyway.

Why hasn't he done this before? It sounds as if he's had a few child-free years recently when he could have been making headway. Why didn't he do science A levels at school or much, much earlier, if this has been a lifelong ambition? How much relevant work experience does he have? The application process is brutal and that sets the tone for the next few years, as far as I can see.

Correct me if I'm wrong, knowledgeable people, but I'm getting a sense of a foundation course set up to pull in overseas students and/or affluent UK students desperate to get into medical school. Lots of persuasive marketing material but no guarantee whatsoever of a medical school place at the end of it.

I agree with what @Elbowedout said as well. The age is a huge factor, never mind the children. The quickest he could go from starting med school to the end of training, even if he decided not to become a consultant and became a staff grade or similar, so did not do all the speciality exams, you are looking at ten years of studying/training at the very minimum. So in his mid-fifties he finally gets to the point where he can take, if he likes, a job without on-call or emergency commitments, and more fixed hours, and not be studying at the same time. Even with that level of job (which does suit some people, not everyone wants to become a consultant) there are unpredictable days, and you might be delayed in leaving work, or unable to drop everything to go and deal with a childcare issue. IMHO there is NO medical training or career which is going to work for him in the circumstances you describe.

Looking again you say he has an offer? How is this? Most offers aren’t given out until February usually with interviews between November and February. Is he suggesting he ha a deferred offer from last year?
No such thing as close to an offer - either you do or don’t have an offer.

I didn’t think you could train to be a doctor last 35? Has that change now?

That changed years and years ago.

Ah, Brandon Lee, let me count the ways... 😥

I had a feeling this was going to be about OP’s ex. I can sniff a fucking reverse at 💯 paces.

Anyway, your ex sounds like a fruitloop who’s trying to fuck with your mind, @Puzzledbyart. How much care giving responsibilities does he currently have or has had for the kids? I’d be tempted to turn them over for a week and see how he gets on.

I did my nursing degree as a single parent.

I did not get "family friendly" shifts
I did not get "family friendly" placements

I survived only because my best friend is an absolute legend.

Medicine isn't a family friendly career and during training the person will be treated like everyone else.

Bursaries are more limited than they used to be.

I think it's personality dependant, to some extent. I know someone close who coped pretty well, but they aren't easily stressed, and also don't yet have children. I think the children will be older, and they can get an au pair for support, which will help. Being older may be an asset.

I think they should apply and try to find people who have done similar to talk to about it.

Looking again you say he has an offer ?

Or is this was he's told the OP ?

He hasn't got an offer. It's all part of the bullshit fantasy. Smile and wave, OP, and let it unravel.

To be fair to the op, I don't think it was meant to be a reverse - she didn't say it was about her, just asked for opinions, and people assumed. I think her first response was "it's not me".

@PurpleDaisies. Ahh yeah. I thought it might. My mum did an access course and there were people on there who did it before their A levels. But I knew one was cutting it close.

But with how PC the world is now. It doesn’t surprise me they would have to change it. It made sense at the time.

I don’t think it’s anything to with being pc. We’re all working longer and longer. Graduate entry courses last four years. Even if you start work at fifty, you’ve still probably got nearly twenty years to give to the nhs.

Do you have a solicitor? It seems to me that your Ex plans to study medicine are a red herring. Before it gets to that he would need to make a case as to why the DCs should be taken away from their resident parent, by a parent who has not had any contact for a while (I think I understood this correctly, he hasn't seen the DC is a while, is that right?) and move them far away from the other parent. I can't see a judge entertaining any of this unless there are allegations of abuse or neglect by the resident parent.

The parenting fails you mention are run of the mill stuff everyone does. Perhaps you should have a fall back system in place with a friend, neighbour or babysitter who can collect the DCs from school if you are again delayed for an hour, but other than that, I can't see as any of the things you mention being neglectful or abusive. Is there anything else going on here or is your Ex just bonkers? If he is just bonkers I suggest you let your solicitor handle him directly.

Thanks, a lot of thoughts that I will try to process. I don't know any details about the offer, the only thing I know is from his (sworn) court statement, which describes it as being nearly a certainty. I know he was going to do this for a couple of years, but we're not in touch (apart from correspondence regarding the children) so I am obviously not privy to any details. It well could be a deferred offer.

My genuine question was whether it is possible or not. So far it looks like the consensus is that possible, but very difficult.

Taking a career break is not an option for me at the moment unfortunately, just cannot afford it. I have limited legal advice, but cannot justify spending £30K+ on it (which seems to be the estimate for the full process from a couple of solicitors I consulted with).
I did not intend it to be a reverse, I just wanted to separate the situation a little bit from the custody issue (which I know is a triggering topic for many). I said a couple of times it is not about me, but people still assumed it is.
He's not independently wealthy, I imagine it is a combination of family help, recent inheritance and loans that will pay for the project. The residence application was filed not because of his plans to study and needing financial support, but after one (admittedly big) parenting failure on my side that came to his attention.

I think mrsfezzywig nailed it. He wants the kids with him so he can claim additional funding while studying.

Are you sure the parenting fail is the reason not an excuse for the reason?

What did you do?

Unless I’ve missed something, nothing you’ve described on here is a major parenting fail.

He’s playing on your insecurities. Don’t let him.

@BanginChoons
I don't think it was the reason for the application. Are there any additional money for students with children? I understand from the thread that everything extra is ring fenced for children-specific cause, e.g. childcare?
I admitted above, I was stuck on a broken train from work (well, technically behind a broken train, with no option to leave and jump into a taxi or something) and was massively delayed collecting the children. I called them to explain, but they still rang the father and that's how it all started. I am not proud of it. I was asked during the mediation whether I would consider taking a local job instead (my job is central London-centric, local jobs are probably min wage for me, as I am not qualified to do anything "portable"), or move closer to where the father is planning to study (same story). Thus panicking a little bit.

A train breaking down is not a major parenting fail. It would be sensible, however, to find some alternative emergency provision so that you can explain to the court what would happen if a similar situation arose in the future.

OP , are you the current primary care giver ? Do the children live with you the majority of the time ? Does their father have regular consistent contact ?

I would seriously consider posting a question about this 'residence situation' in Legal. Where a number of extremely knowledgeable family lawyers will be able to give you the benefit of their experience. For my (non-lawyer) perspective... if being late to pick up from school/childcare due to an unavoidable and unpredictable transport issue meant losing my children.. then mine would have been in care for the majority of their childhoods ! This is completely bonkers . The children (I presume) are settled with you ?

Has he any backup if he got residency? Because believe me given the pressurised nature of studying and practising medicine it won’t be long before he is undergoing multiple “parenting fails”.

Honestly, that is not a massive parenting fail. And the job, and study, he is planning to do will not be local to the children it will involve a move. Did mediation suggest he applies to the med schools near you?

It would be useful to get some emergency back up, even it's the late teenage children of friends, who can do emergencies like this. This sort of thing happens to all parents and it's not a major fail. Crap parents do this because they can't be arsed.

Unrealistic sorry. And nervous breakdown inducing.