Single parent wants to change career into medicine, but has no support.

[Puzzledbyart]

Just out of interest. Let's say we have two primary aged school children (on the younger side of primary). Is it feasible for their single parent to go through the medical school (with a foundation year, they are in 40s, so long out of school), whilst retaining 100% custody of the children? There is no family help nearby, and no substantial savings to pay for the childcare either. Is it realistic at all?

Trust me the sacrifice is not worth it.

Apologies, went back and read the middle bits.... Sounds all a bit mad If he thinks he will have more spare time studying medicine????

Once medical school is finished he will be a junior doctor and that would be v difficult with no support as a single parent. I'd point out that it would be very challenging to be a single parent without family childcare in this situation, will the kids have the upheaval of having to move again?

When I applied for F1 and F2 jobs 10 years ago, those with school age children were automatically granted their deanery of choice - but deaneries are big. One covered Kent Surrey and Sussex, one North West England, Wales and Scotland were one deanery each. You then had to competitively apply for jobs in that large region. Maybe it has changed since.

Shifts as a junior doctor are the norm and as you change job every 3-6 months it would be hard to plan childcare. For some jobs only a live in nanny or au pair could work as overnights. So you are working in paediatrics for 4 months which involves working 8-8 often and occasional nights and weekends, then switch to A&E which has as many weekend shifts as weekdays and fairly frequent nights, then you switch to pathology which is 9-5 and you only get the basic unbanded salary and are struggling to afford the expensive childcare arrangements you set up for your previous rotation (typically banding for unsocial hours is 50% of your basic salary on top).

Then you apply for speciality training which is competitive so he may end up moving region again after the first two years.

actually my studying is greatly beneficial to my children's future.

What about their present?

@Puzzledbyart we lost 4 coats in one week and a pair of football boots... I do not belong to even a single parents WhatsApp and I've no intention of it. That does not make you a bad parent. It makes you a parent.

Are parents not allowed to choose family friendly shifts?

Are you for real?

OP, he's not going to get residency. He might get increased contact time, but dragging kids away from their resident caregiver, school and surroundings is not in their best interests.

Focus on it from the perspective of the children's welfare. And give thanks you do not have to support him through this madness. My sister did this (no dependents) and it was insane. My guess is that he will struggle just to keep up with the academic requirements. A lot of students never make it as far as placement.

There is no guarantee that she will end up studying medicine just by joining a Foundation course. She still needs to compete against thousands of possibly better qualified applicants.

I would say however that that Foundation year can open a lot of other possibilities that may be easier to manage a single mum with no support.

Are you for real?
That's what is says in the brochures I've seen. Family friendly, fully flexible working, accommodating personal circumstances fully.

What about their present?

They cope well. I do everything I can to maximise time with them and minimise upheaval. I'm doing this for them and with them not in spite of them. It means I will be able to buy us a home they can always come home to, save money to buy them a car when they are older, and help them pay to learn to drive it, I can put he heating on in winter and know I will be able to pay for it.

The other option was minimum wage job, no stability, always topped up with benefit, no car in a rural area, always saying no to things, school trips, dance classes, days out.

I've made the choice which is best for us. I don't need your approval.

I don't need your approval.

I wasn’t offering any! I asked a question about the current impact on your DC. As you seemed so keen to point out the future (not guaranteed) benefit to them- I thought maybe you were choosing to ignore any current negative impact on them. Maybe you’re not. Maybe there isn’t one. I was just asking the question.

That's what is says in the brochures I've seen. Family friendly, fully flexible working, accommodating personal circumstances fully.

Do you have a link?

Are you serious? If its a childhood dream, how did they get to forty before thinking about it? If it was beneficial to the children then study before breeding rather than prejudice them for selfish daydreaming.

It’s about as un family friendly as imaginable. The military is more family friendly. Medical school is about manageable but the foundation programme isn’t. You’d work very long shifts, including nights for long stretches without a break. You are not able to choose your place of work - you can apply to deaneries but they can be vast. Even then it’s selection on a points basis so unless you are high up the rankings your choice becomes more limited. So apply to South Thames and you might get a year in London and a year in Margate. Not ideal for parents.

I know someone who went to medical school with a child as part of a couple, the stress split her and her partner up. She had to move back to close to her parents in order to get through the f1/f2 years. The foundation year and perhaps the non clinical years are one thing but as other posters have said, the clinical years will be hard and f1/f2 impossible without live in help/very close family or friends support.
Also if you end up in one of the bigger areas (north east covers right up to Cumbria for eg) then getting placement far from home is very feasible. You have to be academically top notch to be considered for your first choice, it’s not just competitive to get into med school but all through and beyond!

I have not RTFT but he has got to be taking the p*. A medical student has a lot of free time? Ha ha!

I am a doctor, I was at medical school many many moons ago, but my stepdaughter is a medical student (third year) right now (albeit not in the UK). I can tell you with 100% certainty that being at medical school (especially after the first couple of years) does not involve free time! He clearly has no clue how intensive, difficult and time-consuming the actual studying side of things is, never mind the hours involved once you get into the clinical years and have to in the hospital at whatever hours you are told to be. I absolutely loved medical school, had the best time of my life there, but part from a bit of hard partying at special times like after exams, "free time" was not a concept.

Being a junior doctor was even worse, in terms of time, of course. I didn't have children, and I was exhausted every day for about six years. I didn't have a child until long after I became a consultant!

I have done all of the things you forgot, none of which made me a crappy patent. If missing PE kit or jumpers caused real harm then thousands more children would be in care.

Is he expecting you to do childcare whilst he’s on nights?

I think the study part would be ok.

I'd be worried about the difficulties finding childcare around long and changing shift patterns, as well as moving to different hospitals for placements with little notice.

I think you'd definitely need some sort of live in childcare (say a reliable au pair if you cant afford a nanny).

Also I think the physical and mental toll of being a junior doctor is tough.

I also think you need to be flexible - I don't think being a doctor is the kind of thing you can rush out the door as soon as your shift ends because of childcare - ideally yes you should be able to but in reality if the person taking over your shift is ill or delayed then people could die if you just clock off.

I think it would be logistically and physically and mentally very very hard without support. Sorry.

You need to base your argument based on the kids are settled . Happy in school . Do you have family around? The support network but an imaginary free time , god knows who looking after them when they are on nights , removing them from their mum.

Unless you are not a fit parent ( losing jumpers and not joining bathe PTA don’t help you qualify) there is not a reason to move them . I would argue if he takes you to court as he is planning to move away it makes sense for the contact order to reflect the changes he is making as 50/50 isn’t possible from that distance.

forgotten PE kits, overdue dentist appointments, missed sports days, I do not volunteer as a parent help at school, three thousand jumpers were lost since September, there were instances when I was stuck on a broken train and late for more than an hour for collection.

All that except the last one is well within the normal run of parenting, and while I don't think I've been an hour late for pick up, I've had a good few instances of being notably late, and sometimes that's been purely my fault - yours wasn't. Social workers would laugh at the idea that this is neglectful. Not to wish to lower the bar, but if your kids are secure, regularly fed and cleaned, know they're loved, have enough clothes, some toys and a bed to sleep in, you're doing ok and better than many.

On the other hand, I can see how quite a few of those things would be hard to achieve for someone in medical school with no income and no other support and no proper experience of day to day parenting to fall back on. But frankly, I think this is never going to happen. He's entertaining a fantasy. Don't let yourself get too frightened by these blatantly insane ideas when he hasn't even made it through foundation year yet.

That's what is says in the brochures I've seen. Family friendly, fully flexible working, accommodating personal circumstances fully.

Many people who have ever applied for a part time degree course will tell you that universities are often good at talking the talk on issues like this, less good sometimes at making it a reality.

My friend did. Started when her child was 1. She paid fulltime daycarerplace and also found an evening sitter and a night sitter (two young ladies she paid as and when). When little one started school she used same means.

Shes doing f1 now

Hi OP. This is really interesting. I'm a junior doctor with a young DD, I also have a physical disability so was given placements as close as possible through medical school (this was before I had my DD.)

It's utterly impossible in my opinion. This whole "family friendly placement promise" is a myth and it's just not viable. You have to travel long distances to meet the GMC requirements of varied placements in different settings. A medical school based in the NW of England for example covers north wales, the Isle of Man and right up to Barrow in Furness. I had the "preferential placement allocation" and the university were SO kind. I still went left right and centre all the time across London. It's tough, it's so bloody expensive and actually the hours needed to revise on top of placement mean i find it laughable hes even considering this.

ALSO. There was a foundation programme at my Med school. It was insanely competitive as there were so few places, despite the entrance reqs looking lower. You still have to sit the aptitude tests and meet the same score as the other applicants to the usual course and honestly, they got some really really good students in that way. Think oxbridge graduates, LSE grads, they really were from excellent academic backgrounds.

I think it's great to dream big and actually I love my career in medicine- it can be super family friendly later on after the early years are done if you're careful about your career path and willing to make sacrifices at work but this really is mad.

And I did chuckle at family friendly shifts once you start work. I have had all my leave requests rejected, worked Xmas day every year since graduation and even missed my Dsister's wedding as they wouldn't approve the leave. There's no such thing as family friendly shifts, it gets SO much worse when you start work.

It’s the out of hours childcare that’s the issue. You won’t get funding for a night nanny/ weekend nanny.

If you have space for 2 au pairs on top of breakfast clubs and after school clubs then ok.

But you won’t see much of your dcs at all and if you have a nasty ex then then could use this against you if they would want custody.