...to think it's not something to be particularly proud of?

[MustAddToCV]

Does anybody else think that some posters seem to feel that it is a particular personal achievement to be a longstanding MN member?

There are so many threads at the moment about how shit it is now with all these thick newbies posting, and how much better it was years ago. I see post after post from OPs saying they wouldn't have got this reaction back in the good ole' days.

I've been here for a good few years (though not as long as the people making these posts, I presume), but I don't feel my opinion is worth more than somebody that signed up yesterday.

Who cares how long you've been posting on this forum, honestly? It's not that deep.

But I see posters who I usually admire for their intelligence and clarity of thought post shit like this. And I think, maybe it's gone over my head and I'm missing something?

What I do find disturbing, is that trying to understand an issue from each protagonist's perception is automatically dismissed as being an apologist for men, at the moment.

Reason, rationality,empathy and thinking things through from all perspectives seems to be considered a failing here (if there's a male involved anywhere in the story).

is that trying to understand an issue from each protagonist's perception is automatically dismissed as being an apologist for men, at the moment.

sadly I don't think that's new! There are some really bitter posters on MN, it's frightening.

I don't think MN seniority should carry any particular weight in discussions, but I have to agree with the other 'oldies' that MN HAS changed a lot, and personally I don't think it's for the better.
As others have said, it's gone through the typical lifecycle of a chat forum when they grow.
When I joined - literally within weeks of it going live (19 years ago ) there was proper debate, argument and discussion. People disagreed without resorting to name-calling and swearing . There was a massive community feel and people cared about each other and knew each others 'stories' so the threads were more meaningful.

I'm not here much anymore as it's not so relevant, but I've noticed the chats are lazier, people don't bother reading posts properly and are much quicker to judge.
I think mobile devices are probably part of the problem - people just browse and post while multi-tasking and as a result it's all rather light and casual. In ye olden days we were all at our PCs crafting long, helpful answers! I remember people talking about printing off whole threads for future reference

Go and check out a parenting thread from about 15 years ago - the answers were long and well-written!
And there were no emoticons

YANBU!

This navel glazing happens on all forums, it’s just the way it goes

I've noticed a significant rise in racism, homophobia, benefits-bashing and (of course) transphobia in the last 6-12 months which, in my opinion, has made MN a much less enjoyable place to be.

I'm a relative newbie. I couldn't give a fiddler's fart about how long anyone has been a member of Mumsnet - its a public forum - on the bleeding internet, not Mensa.

I don't think they say they've been here for years because they're proud of it, they're just explaining the timeline for the changes.

Someone who came after penis beaker won't have the same view of the changes as someone who joined last week or conversely someone who was here for Alfred's cakes or the mouldies.

It's an internet forum - they've all changed. It's not static and its advertising and positioning has definitely shifted over the years so, of course, that affects the demographic.

I can't think of any forum now that is like 'old' MN. It was 'of its time' and that time has gone. which is a bit disappointing because there is a gap for what MN used to be

Posting on a thread like that if you aren't one of the 'in-crowd' is the best way of being completely ignored that I have ever come across confused

Absolutely but I don’t see this at all anymore. It used to be terrible some years ago with “MN royalty” taking over many a thread and ignoring those who weren’t in their clique but they seem to have pissed off elsewhere now leaving it a much more inclusive place.

To be fair it used to be much funnier before. I’ve had a few breaks recently and come back each time to find it less fun somehow. If it continues I think I’ll stop altogether.

Hi everyone, just popping our heads round the door as we've seen a few mentions of people specifically and it's breaking the TG around personal attacks. We might have to take it down if it gets personal.

Gloria seriously why have I been deleted? I criticised the personal attacks!

Posting on a thread like that if you aren't one of the 'in-crowd' is the best way of being completely ignored that I have ever come across confused

Absolutely but I don’t see this at all anymore

It looks like my post was ignored!!

:)

I predate the penis beaker, so a good few years, and as with every forum I've used, there is naval gazing about how the forum has changed and always has been.

I think there have been points of gear change. Penis Beaker pulled a lot of new members in. New members are not a bad thing, I've watched previous forums die off, and people do move on and need new traffic to replace them, but when there is a sudden influx there is a local culture shift hence the recent flurry of naval gazing.

Another gear change was a fault in the username system when User123456 got confused about replying to User654321 and the misquoted User456789 got offended, and discussion was difficult to follow and keep personalised. There's also been the loss of familiar names through namechanging.

I think the wider political shift since 2015/16 has had an impact. People are more confident in strongly polarised opinions and nuanced discussion has suffered for it.

There did used to be more humour and silliness without it having to be explicitly identified as "lighthearted" which is a bit of a humour killer to start it off with. Not necessarily threads I engaged with, but it did radiate something through wider posts.

MN has always taken quality of writing seriously and it's something I always liked about it. I'm not a pedant who wades in and normally just move on if a wall of text is offending my sense of English. I think MN is a lot less sweary than it was, and definitely less "cunty". I was quite shocked at the abundant use of that particular word, but I liked the creative freedom to swear expressively.

I never knew who the mythical MN Royalty were, but then I'm the kind of person who tends to need to be slapped in the face with a clique before I notice it

If I want full strength vitriol, there's always the comments for the local news. There's a way to crush your faith in humanity

I suppose the big risk to Mumsnet is that the site loses authority - hard to be a voice for women's issues, hard to endorse products, hard to be invited onto govt committees, etc., if the site's known as the forum for hysterical non-problems.

MN had a gift with its primarily MC users at first - a very valuable niche gift. Trouble with going out of niche is that mass market means just that. Who rates Reddit? No need to answer that, is there.

I would like to know why I was deleted too.

@notacooldad how was your post ignored?

What I do find disturbing, is that trying to understand an issue from each protagonist's perception is automatically dismissed as being an apologist for men, at the moment.

I’ve noticed this. It’s absolutely painful.
There’s at least one current thread with this theme and some posters absolutely falling over themselves to label anyone remotely level headed as misogynistic wallflowers.

Why was Fairylightsandwine deleted?. She posted that someone had advance searched her and stalked her posts but didn't name anyone, so not a personal attack.

q

@notacooldad how was your post ignored?
I was joking!
Someone said about posts being ignored.
I said that happens to me and then someone came on and said ignoring doesn't really happen!!

I was just being lighthearted

happens on every forum, I don't get the logic of it either

I've been on MN for about five years and been lurking for longer. I think the tone has changed abruptly for the worse recently: more spite, more casual racism, more narrow-mindedness about the poor etc.

Agree 100%. I would add internalised misogyny to that list.

I've been here since the days of "pink peter" etc which is a bloody long time, in that time I've de-registered a couple of times (found myself wasting too much time when I should have been working) and had a few name changes.

It has definitely changed but that's because the site is huge now compared to how it was. In the earlier days there were most definitely far worse trolling episodes than I've seen recently, CVQ was a good example of that.
I do think there was more scope for mean girl type behaviour as well because you could recognise more people and there were definite cliques, there was one girl who was accused of being a troll in a series of really unpleasant threads, but I actually met her in real life and her description of her home and living conditions was absolutely spot on. I think it was just that her level of poverty was so far outside of the experience of the majority demographic back then that people were incredulous that things could actually be that bad.

There were also some brilliant things that happened where posters supported each other and met up regularly and those type of things won't happen again as the site is too big now and it would be too hard to work out if someone was genuine before meeting.

I do miss the threads that ended up being epically funny as well either unintentionally (name change fails for an embarassing question) or where it was just genuine good humour ("if your name is janet you're a secretary" etc) that everyone jumped in on without needing an explanation.
But again, that's because the site is huge and more anonymous now.

I do think it's easy to be nostalgic and forget the amazing things that do happen on this site as it is now where the sheer number of posters makes a difference, the woolly huggers for example.

My only concern now is the huge amount of politically driven posts dressed up as a normal thread from obvious plants which are only about trying to drive a certain opinion or agenda and I do wish HQ could be more on top of things in that respect. (the homeless thread is a good example I think)

Whilst I agree with you that it's irrelevant how long people have been here, and it's not an achievement or anything to have been here a while, I do think it is a different place than it was.

Obviously forums, like anything, change and evolve. However I have noticed some changes in the time that I have been here (approx 11-12 years) that have made me sad and yearn for the earlier days. it feels less supportive - often people who post looking for help receive responses criticising them and their parenting, perhaps for giving their DC a less than perfect diet, or their issues will be dismissed as "first world problems" and a "tragedy top trumps" ensues. Posters are criticised for not following advice from other posters, and effectively "told off" by others. In essence, posters are far less pleasant and supportive than they used to be. I love the "fun" posts (or the ones that end up that way) but there is now always someone who is offended by them or criticises others for enjoying them.

Of course it is also true that it was much more cliquey in days gone by. There were a core of well known, vocal posters who (it sometimes felt like) ruled the roost. previously, it was often the case of waiting until the wise and experienced MNers came along to dispense advice and pearls of wisdom, and it felt like the rest of us were never taken quite as seriously.

Anyhow, it is what it is, and as I am still here I clearly still enjoy it. Obviously all of the above is just my perception and is entirely subjective. Personally, if I post anything about yearning for the early days it is not a criticism of newbies, nor does it reflect that I think their thoughts and opinions are any less worthy, far from it. If I had a choice I would prefer it if there was less anger, less criticism and more genuine support of each other, but like every other poster, I have no control over what everyone posts.