To think that very few people really care about others mental health?

[Whitehorseinthehill]

I keep seeing things on social media about Mental Health awareness. Also people always say that you should talk to someone, speak out.

We get a lot of emails circulating at work about mental health.

My experience is that in reality it is not only extremely difficult to get any type of meaningful medical care, but people don't actually want to hear about it.

When most people ask how you are, they don't really want the truth if it's not good.

I have learned over the years to just keep things to myself. The strain of putting on a brave when I am struggling is exhausting -but I know people do not want to hear that I am struggling yet again. Earlier this year I spent the weekend in A&E after taking an overdose. I have told nobody - I’ve just tried to carry on as if it didn’t happen.

I think the other problem is that the spectrum of what we mean by 'mental health problems' has become so broad as to be almost meaningless. So you get people understandably struggling with stressful life events and feeling down and anxious about it lumped in with people with depression so severe they can't wash or eat and those diagnosed schizophrenic.

The first group of people most can relate to and isn't a long term problem. But to apply the same assumptions and advice to the second group would be absurd.

And what about those people who wander the streets talking to themselves and unwashed? Those who can't work, have relationships and are in shitty accomodation and essentially left to rot under what is known as 'care in the community'? These people are not the target of these memes and probably never will be yet they are suffering the most. They are the dispossessed who these awareness raising campaigns leave behind.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/28/meet-patients-left-out-mental-health-conversation

@Zero79me well said.

I keep things very much to myself and no one apart from my husband and a close friend would probably even know that I have some struggles of my own.

To everyone else I present (I am always being told) as very calm, capable, a safe pair of hands; people always turn to me in a crisis and tell me I am strong. It's all a mask because that's how I do things. Underneath I can be just about holding it all together. Because of this (I am guessing) people often tell me all of their problems and often turn to me for support. I give it willingly and try my very best to listen but sometimes the further I become dragged in to other people's struggles the more I want to scream "but nobody asks me how I am!!!!". Even that is unreasonable because if anyone did ask I would always smile, say that I am fine and change the subject!!!

I appreciate that I sound like a selfish individual, but sometimes the more time I spend prioritising other people's mental health above my own, the worse I feel. I do care how people are, but knowing that every conversation with some people will end up with them telling me all of their latest struggles will lead to me avoiding them until I feel robust enough to take it all on.

I agree mostly.

I have certain friends I know they are genuine as they have loved ones suffering/have suffered from mental illness or they’ve experienced it themselves.

But yea a lot of them it’s virtue signalling.

I’ve had crisis points and I know which “friends” would and have genuinely be there for me and those that would feel very uncomfortable with it, but then they’re “friends” only in social media terms and not in real life, they’re more acquaintances although some of them are relatives who are arses about mh stuff.

“there is so little you can actually do.” I wouldn’t completely agree with that. It depends on the person with the mental illness of course as it’s not “one size fits all” but you adjust according to your knowledge of that person.

Things that I appreciate include:

Staying in touch on sm, liking and commenting on my posts so I know you’re thinking of me.

Sending private messages on occasion just to say “I haven’t forgotten you, just checking in to see how you are” have a brief conversation that way

Understand that just because I can’t do certain things at certain times doesn’t mean I no longer want you as a friend, that I do want to do things with you I just can’t manage it always.

Be willing to compromise on when and where we meet so I can avoid places I find too anxiety inducing, I’m not talking major changes that inconvenience people but just a slightly quieter coffee shop/bar/restaurant.

Understand sometimes I may run a little late if anxiety gets the better of me, I personally tend to the opposite and am pathologically early usually but sometimes with my ocd I can get stuck in a ritual.

Please don’t give trite “advice” especially if you’re not a mh professional. It gets very irritating being told repeatedly things like “you just need a positive attitude” “just don’t think about the germs” “go for a walk every day I’ve read that is as good as antidepressants”

We’ve heard it all before a million times and speaking for myself (though I suspect not just me feels like this) it just makes me feel criticised, unsupported and misunderstood. BELIEVE ME if I could cure or even treat my illness with such simple measures do you really think I wouldn’t be doing it already? Many of us with mental illness have tried many many things to help and either they haven’t worked or if they do help, where we’re able we already do them.

BUT if we say to you we’d like company for walks or to go to a class that might help, if it’s something you can support with then please do - it means a LOT to us if we have that support.

My mum often feels “useless” but honestly she’s a great listener, and sometimes just being able to have a rant/get stuff off my chest really helps. She also gets my slightly weird sense of humour and can make me laugh at times when I’m really losing it which DOES help.

“Showing basic compassion for people you love should hardly be an enigma shrouded in mystery.” Exactly

“Didn't take long for the MN standard

"Yes, it's all very sad but who has the time/energy for that ?" apologists to show up” agree - and there are some horrifically prejudiced posts/threads that appear on mn that even when reported are left to stand. Mn themselves need to do much better is supporting the mentally ill.

“Untrained support doesn't cure MH problems.” Not on its own but having genuine support does help.

“I do however often wonder when people post about their friends’ failings, how often they themselves have offered support?

Everyone thinks everyone else can do better; very few people think they can do better.” I don’t agree with that. Myself and others I know who have/do suffer mental illness are generally more compassionate than others.

I’m currently housebound, I barely leave my room as I’m so ill at the moment, but I talk to others who are going through difficult times, let them know they are thought of and cared about, insomnia is an issue for me and I know when people are stressed they can often be lying awake in the wee hours, when most Helpline’s are closed and they’re not wanting to wake anyone and I make it very clear I am more than happy to talk either on phone or by various messaging services at any hour if I’m awake and that they needn’t worry about waking me. Not many take me up on offer I think they still worry about disturbing me but a few have and I’d much rather they did than sit suffering desperate to talk to someone. I’ll do similar on here if someone having a shit night and I see a “handhold needed” type post having been very grateful for other mners supporting me.

When I’m doing a little better I do what I can to support friends/family with their stresses, meet for coffee and chat, go with them to medical appointments, help them with financial issues (I can’t loan them money you understand but many years of dealing with various agencies means I have experience I can pass on, I do that on mn too), go with them for walks or classes, discuss medication with them if they wish if it’s something I have experience with, sometimes just listening to them rant about a shit day/week/month.

What it comes down to is mental illness is STILL seen as a character flaw, a weakness in personality. Until that is properly changed we won’t see real improvements in support and care both formal and informal

@Graphista You sound so kind. Your post has made me quite teary.

I can live with it if you want to put me in the selfish box.

My mother used to say it was selfish too. To not try hard to fix people even when you knew you probably couldn't fix them, AND that your own mental health could also suffer badly from the failed effort. Mom had chronic depression & alcoholism, btw. Other relatives had OCD, bipolar, widespread depression, pedophilia, drug addiction, nervous breakdown...

Even though my mental health is good now, being around crazy people makes me... well, crazy. Or makes me miserable, which is as good as being completely bonkers. I can't fix you I can only stop myself from sharing your hell.

it seems like there are super tough people out there who really could be sympathetic & supportive without taking on the misery into themselves. Maybe b/c they were professionally trained or just have some innate immunity. I'm not like them so I can't understand them.

So I don't see selfishness everywhere. I see self preservation.

WhineUp you talk a lot of sense, and I agree completely. I’m a kind and giving person, I will be there for friends who need support and check in, go see them, for the long haul. I don’t abandon friendships easily, I have given a decade of my life to volunteering in mental health and had a career providing professional support to people with MH issues.

But my boundaries are like steel. They have to be. My priority is first and foremost to myself and my own mental health, secondary is my closest loves ones. We all have circles of people around us of differing degrees of closeness, I’ll do almost anything to be there for those I’m close to. But what I’ve found time and time again is people who are way outside my circle and with whom I’m not at all close expecting me to be their unpaid therapist and emotional support, when it’s just inappropriate for the type of friendship or acquaintance we have. I used to give just as much to those people as people close to me until I realised it just bled me dry. These days I will provide some initial support but make sure I signpost/advise them to seek proper professional support, access services like the samaritans, but then leave it there and expect them to either seek proper help or go to the people they are actually close to.

So I would never share something about my door always being open cos it isn’t. For my close loved ones it sure is, and over time you get a sense in friendships whether it’s reciprocal or not, my friends who’ve stood the test of time I know to be caring and giving and even if they’re going through a difficult time for months, years on end I’m there for them as I know their character and that they’re not taking the piss. But I’d never pretend my door is open to everyone struggling, it isn’t and that’s healthy and I do think it’s silly to share those social media posts personally because it’s rarely true and even if it were all it indicates is poor boundaries and perhaps a tendency to try be a rescuer.

When I have occasionally got stressed at work people didn't know what to do and flapped around ignoring me.

I work in a mental health team

Whereas if someone had cancer, or chronic pain, we wouldn't all say "well what can we do", even though we can't cure it. We'd offer the bit of support we can even if that was making the person a brew or simply being kind to them.

@Whitehorseinthehill

I completely agree that people react very differently to physical vs. mental health illnesses. I think it's simply because they feel like they know what to do when someone's physically ill - he's got a broken leg so he needs lifts to places, bring them a meal, etc. or if someone's in hospital they need company, cups of tea and a chat, etc.

MH illnesses are more difficult to understand and some people don't realise that similar support (like tea and a chat) can really help. No one's expecting you to cure them.

@wakemeupwhenitisover thank you, I hope so.

Of course good boundaries and preserving ones own mh is important but where it is possible to give support it's mostly greatly appreciated.

Whereas if someone had cancer, or chronic pain, we wouldn't all say "well what can we do", even though we can't cure it. We'd offer the bit of support we can even if that was making the person a brew or simply being kind to them.

I think that’s really surprising if those are the experiences you’ve had or witnessed regarding people dealing with cancer or chronic pain! There’s a lot of correlation in my experience between how people respond to someone with those illnesses and people with MH issues. Often the first thing someone will do is try to offer solutions. For example with both chronic pain and cancer I can’t tell you the number of people who will jump straight into ‘cannabis. It cures it.’ or offering completely baseless unasked for advice on what to do about it. With chronic pain often someone will have a vague idea they knew someone who knew someone with something similar and try advise on how to cure it with really silly things, as if the person with the pain hasn’t already tried everything and exhausted all avenues trying to make it better. Or even worse ‘here’s the number for my herbalist/homeopathist’ 😡

Or, a ‘well, what can you do’ shrug. People feel awkward about something like cancer and either try force platitudes about how they know how they’ll beat it or just don’t know what to say at all so stay quiet. Often with chronic pain people say ‘it’ll get better I promise’ or totally misunderstand the severity of it.

I think across the board, laypeople just tend not to be great at responding with empathy and compassion to disclosures of any type of pain as it feels awkward to be unable to fix it, and maybe it triggers something in them you may not be aware of.

Ridge exactly. The majority of people don't tend to seek support from those they know are stressful to be around or lacking resilience generally, or those they know are struggling with their own mental health or other problems.

There is an assumption that anyone outwardly fine has broad enough shoulders to take the load. With little or no thought given to the fact it might be just big shoulder pads, or that the person might be towing a heavy load behind them.

Personally, sitting and listening to someone talk at length about their mh difficulties is the one thing I'm rarely prepared to do. My entire upbringing revolved around doing so with a parent that used mild mh problems as an excuse to be abusive. I don't have ptsd in the general sense, but being trapped in conversation with someone that has similar mh symptoms, regardless of the fact they are otherwise nothing like my mother, certainly evokes the same childhood feelings in me, and dredges up memories I'd rather avoid.

Not to mention that with some mh problems and some sufferers, talking repeatedly about the symptoms does nothing for the sufferer in the long term, and causes its own problems for those in the supporting role. Eg constant reassurance seeking with anxiety.

Practically I'm happy to help, whether that's with dc, lifts, gutting the house, generally talking and providing company. I'm fine with talking about mental illnesses and symptoms that don't give me flashbacks to childhood. But if others decide that as I'm a (genuinely) happy, calm and capable person, imposing limits as my own way of surviving past trauma makes me an apologist or an excuser then so be it.

OP “ I keep seeing things on social media about Mental Health awareness. Also people always say that you should talk to someone, speak out.

We get a lot of emails circulating at work about mental health.”

Both of those things are meaningless though. I realise it might be difficult if you entered the workplace when they were doing this stuff because you might think they mean it. I have had A&D for years and I’ve seen how badly people are treated in the workplace if they say they have it, so I never tell.

Social media, mostly I think people are talking shit.

As for what people can do - not much. I volunteer and today I found a woman I’ve only met once before, having a little cry. I offered to make her a brew and cover her tasks this afternoon but tbh I don’t want to ask because I don’t want the problems of a stranger told to me anyway. Also it’s nosy! I think I did as much as I’d hope someone would do for me.

If there’s someone crying on the Tube, I always offer a tissue but I don’t ask what’s wrong.

Trainspotting I had to (and still do) very much have to almost parent one of my parents due to their actions; some is due to their - mild - mental health problems I believe and some due to basic personality. It's exhausting at times as I feel like everything must revolve around their feelings and I cannot recall the last time I felt that they were genuinely interested in me. I am sure that they are and I know that they love me and I them, but it's tiring, complicated and creates so many conflicting emotions!!

There's a difference between a small talk/passing "how are you?" And an invitation to share your woes.

Many people would care greatly about their friends and their wellbeing in all forms, but they're less inclined to want a full answer from Karen in the staff room who thinks a "do anything nice at the weekend?" Is a cue to inform everyone about her bunion trouble, insomnia and general issues.

Equally, friends are often very supportive, but they aren't qualified professionals and they can't be reasonably expected to keep being an emotional punchbag for someone else's issues. Being a good, supportive friend also means knowing when to take a step back.
E.g. One of my friends was drained after one of their friends fed off them like an emotional vampire whilst not seeking proper help. My friend would get messages out with us essentially suggesting if she didn't call back now then her friends suicide could be on her.

I totally agree. Also, many workplaces don’t care about your mental health at all and not enough is done. Work place incidents and poor mental health caused by work are totally overlooked ( hence many people leaving my last work place with nervous breakdowns).

It is popular to promote better mental health , but in reality, we aren’t helping people .
Practically, big organisations need to utilise charities/nhs and work with them to help people suffering from poor mental health . There would be less staff turn over , less days off sick .

Mental health issues are still stigmatised and not well understood and also a lot of people are uncaring and don’t give a crap if it doesn’t affect them .

Nobody cares. It’s so hard to open up and say how you actually feel, and when you do summon the strength and say how you feel, there is no help to be found, and friends disappear. It’s a lonely world.

I think people who haven’t experienced poor mental health themselves just don’t / can’t understand MH issues in others. Most people are scared of the unknown and it is difficult to understand why someone might want to kill themselves or why they catastrophise everything. Some people are focussed on staying in their own safe bubble and don’t want to let negativity in.

My mum regularly cut her wrists and took pills when we were in the house as children, because of that I would never share with my DSis if I was at crisis point or tell her about a suicide attempt because I don’t want to trigger in her any of the fear and anger we had in childhood with our mum.

I like to think I would be there for anyone needing someone to talk to about MH, but I can’t say for sure I would always be there, or that I would be of any real help. I know that when my mood is low I definitely don’t want to talk to anyone, and the only person I would tell if I was making a suicide plan would be my GP.

I don’t think we can be too hard on people for not really wanting to hear about someone else’s depression because there are a whole host of reasons why they would find the subject difficult.

On balance, I think YABU.

I think most people care, in a distant, theoretical way, about most other people. But everybody has limited resources. Some more limited than others. And we obviously 'spend' those resources on the people closest to us. Nobody can be expected to care at that high level about more than a few people.

I've spent a huge amount of my life around severely mentally ill people and a large proportion of my friends are ill (I've had anorexia and associated MH problems since I was 15). These points are admittedly just my experience and are generalisations, not true of every person with a mental illness. But I think there is truth in generalisation.

1. People experiencing very poor mental health or mental illness do not have an accurate perception of how they are being treated or what people think of them. Often, they tend not to care about themselves very much and therefore they think that others agree. They may be experiencing paranoia or over analysing every social interaction. This easily leads to 'nobody cares' 'everyone hates me' 'everyone ignores me'. Those most likely to comment on the treatment of the mentally ill are the mentally ill. And therefore there are a disproportionate number of people saying that nobody cares about those with mental illnesses. It isn't necessarily accurate.

2. When mental health is poor, boundaries tend to be weak. So people with a mental illness are much more likely to try and care about everyone, listen to everyone, let everyone in, try and fix everyone - and consequently end up drained and in a far worse place themselves. They therefore think that healthier people with strong boundaries are uncaring. So the healthier people stay healthy and continue to only care as much as their personal boundaries will allow. And those who can least afford to lower their boundaries continue to let vulnerable people in and make themselves even more vulnerable in the process.

3. People deeply entrenched in severe mental illness are very difficult to be around and can be difficult to like or even love. My parents never gave up on me and continued to support me through everything - but it nearly broke them at times and then both they and I would have been worse off. I was a nightmare. And I couldn't see it at the time. I would have sworn blind that they were uncaring, unreasonable and wouldn't listen. That was categorically untrue.

4. sharing a meme about mental health or something like that is a very easy, distant thing to do. Sometimes people just want to do something they see as positive. They might find it too difficult to engage in real life or to engage with an individual. But that doesn't mean they don't have good intentions by saying 'please reach out' via a fb photo. They probably don't mean it but that doesn't mean they are virtue signalling.

5. I think the culture of 'just reach out' has gone too far. Sometimes it isn't appropriate. The expected response to a 'hi, how are you' from someone in a shop or an acquaintance being 'fine, thanks' is entirely appropriate and ok. It would be weird to be open with everyone, regardless of the level of closeness of a relationship. Health, both mental and physical, has a level of privacy which I think is a good thing. Nobody wants to hear about everyone's low moods any more than they want to hear about everyone's ingrown toenails.

ridged I had the strange situation of parenting as a child, combined with being reverted back to child status whenever she decided it was in her interests, eg public performance or being abusive. Worst of both worlds.

I imagine your situation is harder as an adult than mine. There's no conflicting feelings, and brutal as it was growing up in that environment, it's easier to compartmentalise and move on from. There was never any love or interest. It's no longer mh as the excuse, it's now being a vulnerable (ha!) sweet old lady abandoned by her child. In between there was grieving widow, because abuse enablers aren't easy to replace. Far more straightforward than a relationship where there is love because if I think of it at all, it's along the lines of not my fucking problem, sort your own life.

All anyone can do is sympathise or empathise, just like if they asked someone suffering a physical illness, all they can do is offer sympathy and closer family and friends may be able to offer some practical support, eg. If you can't go out to the shops they could pick stuff up for you or offer a lift. However just as they couldn't attempt to fix a physical ailment they could not offer psychiatric support for mh problems. And additionally you also have to note that they will have lives to live, jobs to do, dependants to care for, homes to maintain as well as their own problems, therefore may also be limited to how much support they can offer.

One thing that comes to mind is this.

It isn't about trying to fix people. In fact there's sometimes nothing worse than people offering solutions that you've thought of a million times over yourself.

But let's say there was a family event, or a works do that you were asked to attend. It would be perfectly acceptable to say "I'm sorry I can't go because I have a broken leg", bad example but feel free to apply any other physical illness.

It would not be very socially acceptable to say "I'm sorry I can't go because I have crippling anxiety".

If you did say that you'd either make everyone feel really awkward, or you'd be told how you should go anyway and how you'll be fine once you're there.

Some people here are presuming I mean mentally well people ought to be a constant emotional crutch for those with MH problems.

But what I mean is that, for all the celebs speaking out and raising awareness, the truth is it's still not really acceptable to even admit to people.

My dd has struggled with MH issues for a couple of years now. I care very, very much about it and about her. I don't know how to help though, because I'm not trained in mental health problems. The professionals don't actually know how to help either, she was discharged after 6 weeks of CBT because it wasn't helping and she was becoming distressed in the sessions. So instead of trying to find something that does work she was just discharged!! We're now back to square one with speaking to the GP only, and the GP trying to find out where to refer her to. She's on medication, which is helping a bit, but we all feel she needs more than is on offer. None of us know what to do next, including the GP! (I do trust this GP that she will find out, but it's not easy as the mental health department that she usually refers to have already seen dd and discharged her as they can't help).

My sister also suffers with depression and anxiety, and her boyfriend is agoraphobic. I try very hard to support her, but I live too far away to do anything practical. It's difficult to help when we're so far away and both busy at different times so even visits and phone calls are impossible to schedule. It's not that I don't want to help, it's that our lives and schedules don't fit together for being able to help.

If I knew how to help either of them I would be doing it. I don't know how to help, but I'm trying. Sometimes what I do/say to try and help it's all wrong though, so sometimes it's better to keep my mouth shut.

I get what you mean op. But even then it's not always clear cut. Eg I have a colleague that always says they don't want to go to a work do, and to a few of us they do say because of anxiety. What they mean is they want some practical reassurances about exactly what the plan is, and some general vague solidarity. Eg 'if x dept and a,b, and c are all being knobs again we can get more material for future piss taking' 'It'll be fine, you can be an honorary smoker and come outside to avoid the brown nosers'. No pressure or statements that require an answer, but of their own accord they always eventually bring up the fact they are coming a few weeks before. In their situation they'd be quite hurt if we just said ok when they first said they weren't going.