To think that very few people really care about others mental health?

[Whitehorseinthehill]

I keep seeing things on social media about Mental Health awareness. Also people always say that you should talk to someone, speak out.

We get a lot of emails circulating at work about mental health.

My experience is that in reality it is not only extremely difficult to get any type of meaningful medical care, but people don't actually want to hear about it.

When most people ask how you are, they don't really want the truth if it's not good.

Yanbu.

YANBU. I've been on both sides of this, both needing support and not getting it, and not being able to offer the support I ideally would. I can't deal with too many commitments or not enough alone time and I'm socially inept and that leads me to not wanting, for example, to spend my one free hour a day (multiple young children), on a phone call with a depressed friend. I know this makes me selfish but as a PP said none of us have enough time these days.

I think a lot is to do with the sheer prevalence of MH issues, there’s a decent chance that whoever you open up to perhaps has their own stresses or MH problems to contend with too and just can’t handle taking on or hearing about someone else’s. I would never judge someone for not responding how I think they ought to to a disclosure that someone is struggling with their MH as you have no idea what’s going on in their life that they may not have shared.

I do think it’s also the case that people are afraid to make it worse or don’t know what to say, or maybe they’ve had a bad experience in the past being treated poorly by someone who has MH issues (whether the two are related or not) or being latched onto by someone needy they felt pressured by, so they’d rather just keep things at arms length.

Research shows that the happiest and most content people are those with good connections and relationships to family and friends.
If you don’t have that then you can be prone to poor mental health. Loneliness and isolation can have a huge impact on mental health.
We can foster good relationships and be there for a cup of tea and a chat and help out from time to time, and that is helpful to many people.
But anything beyond that can be difficult for people to deal with.
I care a lot about my friends and family.
I dropped everything for a couple of days to help out a friend in crisis. I visited her as much as I could afterwards and took long phone calls from her and her family.
I also helped another friend clean her house because she was so overwhelmed that it had become disgusting. It was bad and my kids were young but it was only for a few days.
Lots of people can do that but what is difficult is maintaining a high level of support. It’s not selfish to put yourself and your family’s needs first. No one should be made to feel guilty about it.

Yes my family share all the fb stuff - my door is open etc etc but we had a family member who eventually killed herself and there were no doors open.
So many people at the funeral. It left me angry and with a different view.

I think part of the problem is that people genuinely do not know how to help someone with MH problems. I find it hard not to make suggestions or give advice but it probably is not that helpful or appropriate a lot of the time. Being a listening ear without trying to help solve the problem can be hard.

The thing is I think we’re all suffering to some degree. Most people I know are busy and under stress. So while you’re always prepared to listen you don’t always have the mental energy to give any more of yourself to a friend / colleague when you’re exhausted and strung out yourself and just kind of carrying on. It’s so difficult.

I have a dh who has severe major depression / manic depression and I had a mum who had schizophrenia. Being around someone who has severe mental illness is absolutely soul destroying. You can talk to them till the cows come home but if they are in an episode of depression it does absolutely no good whatsoever.

There are threads on here at the moment where people post saying they’re too unattractive to date / their lives are rubbish/ they’ve got nothing to live for etc and people post hundreds of motivating posts suggesting things to do, every single one of them is met by a “what’s the point” type reply, which is typical of depression.

I sound unsympathetic. I’m not. I have even had severe pnd myself, after the birth of my first child I was suicidal and was put on a dose of antidepressants they don’t even prescribe anymore. I just think there’s only so much someone can say / do before you really just feel like you have to leave them to it. You spend your life going round in circles saying the same thing to be met with the same rebuttal.

I hate all the memes on mental health.

I also think in the rush to judge people for not responding adequately to their friends and family with MH issues, we tend to gloss over the impact that some MH issues have on behaviour and how if you just see a situation from the outside you may believe that an individual has reached out and had doors slammed in their faces. But from the inside you know a very different story, one in which the person in question may have been behaving appallingly towards others for a period of time, displayed some toxic behaviours, been demanding of more than people can give and so forth. Those behaviours may not be down to the health issues they’re dealing with, you get people who are caring and kind and thoughtful and people who are selfish and cheeky both with and without diagnoses. But you can’t blame people for eventually saying enough is enough, leave it to the professionals, and if you’re not involved in the situation you may not have the first clue about what’s been going on.

It can be incredibly challenging to deal with someone who has severe depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, addictions, week after week for years on end. I’ve been there, with my own MH issues that I can see were negatively affecting others, and with family members and in laws with the above conditions. And sometimes it really is the best thing for your own self preservation to reduce contact or protect yourself from further manipulation or heartache.

The campaign to ‘just reach out!’ really sugarcoats the reality of mental illness imo, it’s not all a previously lovely friend having a mild bout of depression who just needs a hug and a cuppa to realise she’s loved and cared for and who gets ‘back to normal’ the next day. In reality the severity that conditions like depression and different anxiety disorders can reach, not to mental the less glamorous MH issues such as personality disorders, can be such that it really isn’t possible for others to get involved in any meaningful way without compromising their own wellbeing, and requires actual professional support and treatment. I would ALWAYS say to people you have to protect your own wellbeing first and foremost and not give more of yourself than you are capable of, remember you can’t fix someone else and aren’t professionally trained, and if it’s too much and impacting your own life negatively to take a step back. Again I speak from experience as someone with past MH issues and with an awful lot of exposure to people dealing with them too amongst family and friends.

It’s a complex issue and I don’t think castigating laypeople for not knowing how to respond or being able to do so is helpful. And these fluffy ad campaigns are pretty facile.

The memes are well meaning but they mostly translate to
‘stop messaging everyone on line and actually go and meet them in person as that means something and makes a massive difference’

It's really tough to give continued support. My mum is so draining with her MH issues, but has zero ability to even listen to anyone else's problems. She always says it's not as bad as her. So in a way I see that the only person you have to rely on is yourself. Obviously in extreme circumstances this won't work, but mostly only you can change things for yourself. I think trying to get someone else to fix your issues is a bit Knight on a horse coming to save you, it won't happen.

I do think whilst social interaction can be draining, a cup of tea with someone for an hour can really help at the right time. So the sentiment of my door is always open is a good one. Honestly if someone messaged me and said can I pop around for a tea, I'd say yes then try to clean the house as quickly as possible. It doesn't have to be a major unloading to help.

@priceofprogress Yes yes and yes.

My mum died in March (of bowel cancer). Towards the end of her life many people openly made me feel dreadful for the fact I distanced myself a lot from her - I organised her care and stepped in as necessary but there was none of the sitting for days by her bedside stuff people expected me to do. They hadn’t had 39 years of living with her schizophrenia and depression - which often resulted in her shouting at me, constantly putting me down, leaving the house at 3am to walk round in her bed pjs only for me to go and find her and then have her shout at me in the car. Not to mention the days when I was a child and she was sectioned for trying to stab my dad to death with a fork in front of me.

It’s very easy to make depression and mental illness all fluffy and nice but severe mental illness is scary, isolating, misunderstood and challenging - for everyone involved.

@Foghead YY!

I think acceptance is the key. Just be there, without judging, trying to fix etc.

I don't think those irritating memes instead of day to day compassion are exclusive to MH. I had to bite my tongue when a family member copied and pasted a post on understanding alzheimers and being kind. When they will have fuck all to do with the person with dementia in our family. I don't need my awareness raised of a condition that affects my day to day life, ta.

So basically, FB meme posters are shallow and lack empathy, whatever the virtue signalling illness de jour.

I’m really sorry to hear about what you went through with your mum Fairylea. I lost mine to alcoholism and it was very difficult, trying to balance being there for her and supporting and loving her to the end while also accepting I couldn’t stop the inevitable and trying not to let my own life tank in the process.

I always think of situations like yours when people get on high horses about how so many elderly people in care homes have family who don’t care and don’t visit: unless you’re the family in question, an outsider has absolutely no clue what that relationship is like or what has gone on over decades, it’s like we just see someone being older as a generic sweet Werther’s Original kind grandparent and forget that they are people with the same characters and flaws as anyone of any age. I really do try not to judge anybody for the lines they draw around what they can or can’t tolerate in somebody else, it’s so easy to judge without knowing the full story.

I have a diagnosis of bipolar. It isn’t something that is visible to other people - the medication helps me to be functional now, as I can go to work and be successful even when depressed, and put a brave face on all week, but then crash at the weekend and spend a lot of it lying on my bed, feeling guilty as my kids are on the Xbox and being a bit feral.

For the few people I am honest with, it would be really lovely if they would just say “This is shit, isn’t it? Can I pick you up anything you need from the shop?”. That is it really.

From someone really close, if during a very low period they offered to hoover (or wash my children’s school uniform for that week) I would be delighted, as it is hard to keep on top of stuff when I am really low.

Or, to offer to go out for walk with me and to help get the DC to get their shoes on and in the car. That one would be amazing actually, as being outside helps so much, but getting out of the door is challenging in very low periods, and the thought of herding DC out can be a bit too much.

And I don’t mean a walk where I bang on about depression, just an ordinary walk!

But, the only people I am honest with are my DM/DD and my partner. My parents brush over it quickly - “Oh, just the time of year, everyone feels depressed.”

And my DP - he just does my head in by sitting on my bed and trying to find solutions. i.e : I need to call the psychiatrist and change medication as I shouldn’t be depressed... I must get up and go for a walk IMMEDIATELY (when I am still working yo motivation to get to the shower first). Or he paces about looking distressed and flapping and saying he doesn’t know what to do.

I think, “For god’s sake, just make me a cup of tea, give me a hug and remind me that tomorrow will be a better day”. But then, of course, people aren’t mind readers and are trying their best.

So, I agree OP, but I am not sure if it is that people don’t care, they just don’t get it.

It frustrates me though when someone commits suicide and you see all those Facebook posts about being there to talk. Those people often asked for help until they were blue in the face. And, if obviously “mentally ill” were described as manipulative or attention seeking.

I think most people don’t like mental illness when the person is acting in a way that makes them hard to be around.

They prefer the idea of saving someone’s life by talking to them, then they imagine could be a hero of Facebook and tell everyone about it.

But of course, there will be no ad campaigns around dealing with the less palatable MH issues like personality disorders and substance dependency, because those aren’t easily resolved and nobody wants to acknowledge the devastating impact they can have on people around the individual.

I think, “For god’s sake, just make me a cup of tea, give me a hug and remind me that tomorrow will be a better day”. But then, of course, people aren’t mind readers and are trying their best.

Do you say this to him? I found it helpful to tell DH what I needed from him when I was severely depressed. Basically I wanted him to give me a hug, remind me that he loved me and so did other people and that this wouldn’t last forever, and then if he felt up to it to try and kinda encourage me to either get a shower or leave the house for a bit (but to accept it if I said I 100% couldn’t/wouldn’t). It really helped us both knowing what the best response for me was.

But of course, there will be no ad campaigns around dealing with the less palatable MH issues like personality disorders and substance dependency, because those aren’t easily resolved and nobody wants to acknowledge the devastating impact they can have on people around the individual

Yes . This is where it gets tricky . Especially when said individuals exhibit abusive or criminal behaviour . Look at any prison , any soup kitchen

It’s great we are discussing but this is a HUGE grey area

I think your average joe just doesn’t understand the complexities of mental health problems and quickly feels overwhelmed and out of their depth talking about it.
I think there’s also the fear of the unknown and an instinct to separate their (healthy) selves from those they perceive as unhealthy/ ill.
I’m a therapist. Had a fucking shitty birth experience, DS very ill, just a nightmare. The advice I got? ‘Ooh, you’ll have to use your therapy on yourself. CBT yourself’.
Yes Dickhead, because that’s how it works .
Anyway, mental health services are overrun and underfunded and it’s fucking hard as everyone deserves good mental healthcare. You wouldn’t send someone home from A&E with a broken leg but if it’s MH problems you’re fucked, as a patient once told me and they were right.
I now run a private practice and offer pro bono treatment to those who can’t afford it ( once my bills are covered). However, I shouldn’t have to do this- help should be available.

A boy in ds's year committed suicide just before Christmas last year, ds openly said he didn't know him (he'd only joined in 6th year).

My best friend is the school administrator, she told me the boy was always alone and always looked miserable yet the school had to put on 2 buses for his "friends" to attend the funeral.

Even now, almost a year later, and everyone has left school, ds says someone from his year will make a big post about the deceased and how "close" they were.

It's pretty disgusting how it's become so easy to tell everyone how much you care via social media but in reality do absolutely nothing.

I have terrible mental health due to 9/11 , ruminating about what went down in WW2 etc. People care but only to a point - to be fair there's not that much they can do.

I have actually been on both sides of this.

I grew up with a parent with severe mental health conditions. There is very little professional help. I have seen someone make several suicide attempts only to be discharged from the hospital with no aftercare. Sometimes the mental health problems mean there are addiction problems too. It's hell on earth it really is.

But that's why I hate all these social media posts about speaking out, as though that will make it all ok.

I've also been on the other side with my own struggles. I'm actually the last person to burden anyone with my feelings and I never ask anyone to do anything for me. But I've found that there's no point, because if you tell someone you're having a bad patch, not that you even want them to do anything other than acknowledge it, people hate it, they don't want to hear that you're feeling bad today.

Whereas if someone had cancer, or chronic pain, we wouldn't all say "well what can we do", even though we can't cure it. We'd offer the bit of support we can even if that was making the person a brew or simply being kind to them.

I'm over simplifying it, but the crux of it is most people don't want to know about even the mildest of mental health difficulties.

@priceofprogress - To be fair, I don’t think I am especially pleasant to him when I am in that mood

I just get frustrated that he seems to be making me feel worse, and feel like he should just go away and leave me alone if he can’t say anything useful. Then when I tell him I want to be left alone and he goes, I feel really abandoned!

Not rational I know, and I can see what a good person he is, when I am well, but when really down I sometimes take a dislike to him as well as a dislike for myself.

To be honest though what can people really do ?

It's not about finding solutions for people or 'fixing' their problems it's just about showing that you care, that you will listen, that you acknowledge they are in pain, that you accept them for who they are and that they are not alone.