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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that very few people really care about others mental health?

184 replies

Whitehorseinthehill · 09/11/2019 22:16

I keep seeing things on social media about Mental Health awareness. Also people always say that you should talk to someone, speak out.

We get a lot of emails circulating at work about mental health.

My experience is that in reality it is not only extremely difficult to get any type of meaningful medical care, but people don't actually want to hear about it.

When most people ask how you are, they don't really want the truth if it's not good.

OP posts:
ValleyClouds · 10/11/2019 00:17

And you say OK and you carry on

You are a goady fucker clearly and I won't respond to you again

Footiefan2019 · 10/11/2019 00:18

😂

AmICrazyorWhat2 · 10/11/2019 00:30

I agree that some people have no idea how to respond to MH issues and therefore ignore them or simply avoid the person who's suffering.
It's really rubbish when a family member or close friend does this, but we're all flawed human beings. DH and I both have some family members who are crap in an emotional or MH crisis and we wouldn't bother turning to them for anything. Luckily we have some good friends who'd be much better support.

I do think that society at large is making some positive steps towards acknowledging MH problems, they're not as stigmatised as they were even a generation ago. Still a long way to go though and a definite lack of resources.

catsmother · 10/11/2019 01:27

I've suffered from depression, anxiety and extremely low self esteem on and off most of my adult life. I wish that wasn't the case and I'm acutely aware of how that might impact others. So much so that for the vast majority of the time I struggle through, putting on an act, pretending that everything's normal and I feel 'fine'. I have literally spent years like that, not wanting to be a bother, or an emotional vampire, or to seem weak and pathetic for being unable to resolve this by myself.

But every so often, I have felt so desperate and at the end of what I can endure, that, just like the popular advice recommends, I have attempted to 'reach out' and in my experience what happens next is that you'll receive a few stereotypical platitudes - because people don't actually want to say, in effect, fuck off - and can't wait to make their excuses to finish the conversation as soon as possible. You then hear nothing, absolutely nothing, for months... and when you next speak to them, it's as if your previous disclosure never took place at all.

When you already feel worthless and alone, that can feel shattering because it emphasises how little people think of you and how alone you really are. I've come to the conclusion it's preferable not to reach out and get rejected, in spite of desperately needing a little compassion because the double whammy of poor mental health and rejection is immensely painful. All the while you keep your troubles to yourself, a small part of your brain can kid itself that people care.

As others have said, I don't expect anyone to produce a magic wand and sort my life out for me. I don't expect them to have all the answers. I guess what I'm hoping for whenever I've tried to talk (and to put it into perspective that's probably 6 or 7 times in 30 years. Certainly not calls every day, or at inappropriate times) is some acknowledgement that I'm ill and some demonstration that they feel sympathetic about that. So.... a short email or text every so often. A 'thinking of you' card or other small gesture to show the same. Ideally yes, I've often wanted to talk but I understand others might find that awkward, or too draining, or that they feel unqualified to do so. Of course I do... being mentally ill doesn't affect my intelligence! I also understand that others have problems of their own whether health related or otherwise which might impact upon the time they're willing or able to commit to me. I don't expect the earth, I would just like to feel I've been heard I suppose.

And I'd like to point out that that's exactly what I've done when people have reached out to me. I've 'been there' literally or virtually, to the best of my ability at that moment in time, depending on my own health and other circumstances. And if I can't be as supportive as I'd like, I've tried to explain why and have kept in touch the best I can in the ways described above. I can honestly say I've never left someone to flounder having poured their heart out, nor have I blanked them for months afterwards. Even when I've felt like shit myself. I've tried to rationalise being ignored by surmising that they may not be coping well with life themselves but in my personal experience of this, there's significant evidence suggesting that isn't the case. Not even the slightest hint they're struggling in some way.

I know I've ranted on, but to get back to the point of the thread.... time and again I've found the people I perceive (trying to be fair here) as hurtful and uncaring are the ones forever posting up right-on memes concerning mental health compassion, and/or declarations about how their door is 'always open' all over bloody social media. Which of course isn't obligatory but nonetheless makes their halos shine brightly in public. I see the same people getting involved in online discussions critising the taboo that's often still attached to mental health issues. Again, they don't have to do this but the resultant effect is that they come across as compassionate, understanding and wanting to help. Except they don't and pretending that they do, because supporting mental health is somewhat 'on trend', can be damaging when someone asks them to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak.

Apologies if I sound bitter. I guess I am, when I'm thinking specifically of the individuals I've encountered.

trixiebelden77 · 10/11/2019 03:33

I’m surrounded by people who can and do hold hands, offer a listening ear etc.

I do it for others also.

This to me is normal behaviour.

I do however often wonder when people post about their friends’ failings, how often they themselves have offered support?

Everyone thinks everyone else can do better; very few people think they can do better.

Rosehip345 · 10/11/2019 03:54

Most people reposting the mental health mantra are doing it to seem like they’re ‘doing the right thing’
I’ll probably be taken out for this but it’s because it’s honest...most people really don’t care.
Everyone has worries, can be going through a rough patch etc at times but everyone else also has their own lives and worries to think about. I’m not very sympathetic tbh it’s life. It’s harder for some than others but you find coping strategies that work for you. In hindsight I realise I had prenatal depression, I’m glad I ploughed through and got over it as I think giving it a name and headspace would have made it real, and therefore a whole lot worse.

kristallen · 10/11/2019 05:10

Rosehip "In hindsight I realise I had prenatal depression, I’m glad I ploughed through and got over it as I think giving it a name and headspace would have made it real, and therefore a whole lot worse."

I'm sure you're not suggesting that everybody should just suck it up and push on through? Also, as someone who has been very actively "pushing on through" for 24 years now, but hasn't had the breakthrough of "getting over it" ("it" being childhood abuse and abandonment) I'd love to know what I'm doing wrong? As I'm sure many others would too. Are we not pushing hard enough? Is our problem that we have a diagnoses?

Don't worry, I don't actually need any answers to them, because I know probably more about MH issues than you. I'm merely asking to point out how unhelpful what you've said is. If you were not meaning to suggest that people "take responsibility" for their own MH and/or just ignore it and carry on with life, it would have been better to add that sentence. Why? Because the exact same tactic you suggest works can leave others suicidal - or dead - because they can't try any harder and ignoring it doesn't make it go away.

kristallen · 10/11/2019 05:25

We need to start separating MH issues out. There's a difference between having a pulled muscle, a broken bone and brittle bone disease.

SimonJT · 10/11/2019 05:59

People don’t get it and don’t want to. You see threads on here and posters are almost always encouraged to leave a partner if they develop a mental illness. You don’t see the same if they have cancer or a life long physical illness. Not only is it ignorant, but it directly contributes to people not being able to acces adequate healthcare.

People with mental illnesses who are in crisis are told do this, do that, or get accused of being horrible, despite the fact that they are not in control of their brain.

Poor mental health is the biggest killer of men under 45. Last year in the UK just under 7,000 people died due to poor mental health, 1/3 were women and 2/3 were men.

Access to health care is shocking in the UK, in many trusts when you muster up the courage to see a doctor you are asked to complete and online questionnaire in your own time and sent on your merry way. Yet this isn’t done if you find a lump, you can’t breathe properly or if you’re in severe pain.

In my area the waiting time to see a specialist is 11 months, if you’re lucky you then receive four therapy sessions. Yet chemo, physio, pain management etc isn’t limited to four sessions. GPs frequently refuse to sign prescriptions for medication used by those with poor MH as consultants don’t review them on an annual basis, this can leave people without medication for months. Yet this doesn’t happen to diabetics, asthmatics etc.

If you’re in mental health crisis you are given a number to call where you leave your details, it can take upto a week for that call to be answered.

I have depression and anxiety, I also had two eating disorders for a long time, bulimia and diabulimia (using my insulin in a way that reduced my body fat).

I was going to the doctors from about 17-19, I had to see a different GP everytime, not a single one bothered to read my notes and not a single one referred me on to any service. I remember one suggested I took up river fishing.

I ended up being dragged to A&E when I was 22 (eight years after I became ill) as my body fat was dangerously low, my blood sugars had been so low friends had needed to rub sugar into my gums to bring me round and I they had witnessed some psychotic episodes.

I was kept in over night, as soon as my blood sugars were stable for a three hour period I was discharged. No offer of help for my mental health, my discharge notes also showed that all HCPs who had treated me had failed to correctly complete my noted as they noted that I was admitted due to an insulin error.

If I had to rely on the NHS I would be dead. I’m lucky that a friend funded private treatment until I was well enough to pay for it myself.

I’m now 31, my eating disorders haven’t been active for about four years with the odd small blip here and there. I have therapy once a fortnight and I take daily medication for my mental health problems.

If people with physical illnesses were treated like this it would be regular front page news. Look at the issue with a CF drug not being funded as it both prolongs life, but also improves quality of life, due to the press being involved it has now thankfully been approved for use in CF. My treatment prolongs life and improves the quality of my life, it enables me to have a job, hobbis, a partner, a son etc. Yet it is not funded by the NHS and apart from the odd token article in the press no one is willing to take the issue on as it is accepted that if you’re mentally ill you’ll get no help but drugs until you either kill yourself, you commit a crime or you end up being sectioned.

YouJustDoYou · 10/11/2019 06:20

What can people do?They can hold someone's hand. They can make them a brew

But people who offered a cup of tea were told to "fuck off" further up the post. If you're trying to reach out and make a social media post about being there if anyone needs it (because you've had it drummed into you that not everyone will directly ask for help, hence the social media posts), even if it's just a cup of tea, but then you see all these furious posts on here that that makes you a cunt and you can fuck off, I mean, that's just awful. Seriously, making people feel like a piece of shit for trying to offer a place someone can come if they want a chat?

And the pp saying "oh look, the typical apologists have shown up". What the actual fuck do you want people to do? People aren't even allowed to admit that they cannot always be there 24 7 for someone? That they try but sometimes it's not easy to be the constant support? that that makes them a "cunt"? It's seen a shameful, hateful thing to admit that you yourself mentally cannot do it all the fucking time.

YouJustDoYou · 10/11/2019 06:22

You see threads on here and posters are almost always encouraged to leave a partner if they develop a mental illness - and refuse to get help and remain abusive. The advice is actually usually - "just because he has mental health issues, doesn't mean you have to put up with being abused constantly because he wonT get help".

Anotherlongdrive · 10/11/2019 06:38

I have seen and experienced both sides of this.

I am someone who does care. I have spent nights in hospital with friends, had them stay with me, taken time odd work to support them through difficult times. My best friends mum (who is also my dps step mum) has poor mental health and I often look after her as much as they do.

As a manager, I have seen people I think are struggling, taken them for a coffee and initiated chats, authorised last minute leave for people when they need it, gone to the hospital after getting a distressed 11pm text.

I had a friend who was clearly struggling and suspected that she was taking drugs, with her partner again. She also had a history of mental health problems. I tried to gently probe, messaged her often, dropped in to check on. One week I pooped down with flowers for her new home. She was getting better. I messaged her the next day and got no response. She had taken her own life. The next few weeks were full of guilt for me. I didnt do enough, but I dont know what else I could do. I thought she would eventually open up about the drug use and we could get her help. I wasnt fast enough, getting her to open up. I will carry that guilt always. The full extent of her problems came our after.

I do think I have done what I can within my power to do.

On the othee hand, I don't speak to my parents because of my mothers mental health. She was sectioned when i was younger. My childhood was abusive, i was the target of her rage, it made he feel good to make me feel crap. I wasnt meant to be born. Both her and Dad agrees to have 1 child. They were going through a bad patch so mum stopped taking the pill (she admits this) to keep them together, by having a baby. They didnt they split up quite a long time and got back together when I was older. Finding that out made everything click into place. I was often treated surplus to her requirements. Dad has never felt as comfortable around me as my brother. My brother is the centre of my mind world and I am just on the outside. Dad, enables her. Excuses her behaviour, her rages, her name calling her demanding putting up with her poor behaviour. She even used her brother, decline in health and death for attention. Weeks before he died she told me there was no chance of his survival. So I contact my cousin, his son. That wasn't the case. They had been told there was still chance for his survival, but the next few days were critical. She was already telling people he would definitely die and the doctors had said so.

I cut them off because she was bad for my mental health. She used to call my phone constantly, while I was working. Message me and tell me I was up too late (she could she me active in Facebook), I was 36 in my own home. I was constantly anxious because of what the next call would bring.

I am now medicated for anxiety and depression, I am getting better.

I cant look after her mental health at the expense of mine. I have children who need me for practical and emotional reasons.

I am sure some people will think I could do more, I am shit for not helping her or selfish for putting myself first. I dont really care.

Like most people, I am just trying to survive best I can.

Anotherlongdrive · 10/11/2019 06:46

You see threads on here and posters are almost always encouraged to leave a partner if they develop a mental illness. You don’t see the same if they have cancer or a life long physical illness. Not only is it ignorant, but it directly contributes to people not being able to acces adequate healthcare.

I couldn't disagree with this more.

The only time I have seen posters telling someone to leave their partner, with mental health issues is when that partner is being abusive AND refuses to get help.

I have also seen that advice given to posters whose partners are physically I'll and abusive.

And this is the problem sometimes, there iant anything you can do. Keeping you and your children in a house with someone whose behaviour is abusive, will just damage your mental health and the kids mental health.

Take the physical illness example. Mental health isnt contagious. But being brought up in a household with someone who is abusive can cause mental health problems. If your partner had a long physical illness that will pass to your kids if they are in close proximity, what would you do?

SnuggyBuggy · 10/11/2019 07:06

I can only speak for myself but for me it's feeling out of my depth. I've seen a lot of "what not to say to a person with _" posts that have left me feeling that anything I say would be wrong so best not to say anything. Sometimes I don't know what the correct lingo and opinions on something are and people love to come down heavily on someone who gets this wrong. I don't think I'm a bad person, just out of my depth here.

Bumpitybumper · 10/11/2019 07:07

@ValleyClouds
*Didn't take long for the MN standard

"Yes, it's all very sad but who has the time/energy for that ?" apologists to show up*
I think the problem here is that there isn't a universal definition of what "support" looks like and the amount of support that is reasonable to request or offer. I have an array of friends and relatives with various mental and physical health conditions and realistically I do not have the time or energy to provide each person with the support that they would ideally need even if this were the only thing that I did with my time. Combine this with young kids and elderly parents plus some other pretty significant responsibilities and I am left with a gaping time and energy deficit.

I can provide an empathetic ear for a while or meet up occasionally and help with specific tasks, but some people want and need more support that I simply can't provide. I think calling people like me an apologist is harsh and risks actually creating more mental health problems in those who act as the support to others as we burn out trying to do too much. One can't pour from an empty cup and I think it's unfair to suggest that people have a responsibility to prop everybody else up whilst they themselves are at risk of crumbling under the pressure and strain.

CAG12 · 10/11/2019 07:08

I can understand a few perspectives of this.

On the one hand, I genuinely want people to be ok, i'll help where I can.

However, I got involved in a situation where a friend with MH issues came to rely on me for everything and was fairly manipulative about it. Id be spending most evenings with her, talking her issues through and when I wasnt doing that id be on whatsapp doing the same. When I didnt reply id get multiple messages through that would just say my name. It took up every bit of my life. I couldnt provide what she wanted and had to back away from her.

Because of that experience im now very wary of how deeply I get involved with someone again.

Preggosaurus9 · 10/11/2019 07:11

@ReanimatedSGB has it.

I've been on both sides of this.

I can only think that these posts are about "let's chat about our general day to day worries and stop them escalating" not actual serious, chronic MH diagnoses, or crisis.

speakout · 10/11/2019 07:15

I agree OP, but many people don't really understand mental illness, and huge stigmas still exist.

Zero79me · 10/11/2019 07:24

I dont want to know or talk about my health because thete isnt anything other people can do, i have my own issues too and the burden is too heavy. I will just feel awkward around you and the conversation will juat ruin the day. We all have shit. Nothing would get done if we all went on about our MH or physical health, your arches and knee...
I would not want to know about your physical health either..im not a doctor, i feel awkward and have to pretend to care and sympathise.
Hi how are you is a greeting not a medical interview or philosophical debate. We are all doomed, tired and broken one way or another. Dwelling does not help.

I think a stoic approach and i read even smiling when you dont feel like it, getting involved in a something bigger tgan yourself helps.. and some conditions nees medicating.. if you dont want to go that route its fine but you must help yourself too!

kristallen · 10/11/2019 07:26

If we looked at how to dramatically reduce/eradicate poor mental health for the next generation, starting tomorrow, what would have to happen?

First there are three options for causes of MH conditions: biological, social or a combination.

If it is just biological, including genetic, then the medications we have now would have already significantly healed people.

They haven't.

If we look at how to dramatically improve adult MH, time and time again it goes back to childhood. The Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) scores shows that as well as the obvious things like sexual abuse, things we don't like to admit as causing disturbance for children, like divorce, can contribute to adult mental (and physical) health problems.

And then it's worth rephrasing 'mental health condition' or the former 'mental illness' to 'mental injuries', because these are not organic, they are caused by people.

There are also "positive" ACEs. These are things like wide groups of friends, support networks, empathic carers, positive physical touch (and more).

And this is interesting/useful because the same sorts of things that cause mental injuries of the future have caused those of the past, which manifest in adults today.

The problem we have moving forward in both avoiding the mistakes of the past and undoing or relieving them now, is that it requires people - adults in general - to recognise that a) they have pain they don't want to visit b) they have, possibly unintentionally, caused pain to others and c) need to find empathy when it wasn't given to them which is more of a problem if they have a).

Each of these things has been touched on in this thread and are part of the reason why people only want to hear about the "happy ending". This means not only are people unable or unwilling to know about the impact of people's mental injuries, they are unable or unwilling to actively prevent them from recurring in the next generation, either by their own actions or their lack of proper support for children.

Zero79me · 10/11/2019 07:27

A lot of people need professional help instead of enctoaching on others. Itdrained me and made me feel worse when ive been used as a sounding wall/therapist. Just no, there are affordable options. Even write in a diary.

churchandstate · 10/11/2019 07:30

I think people often care, but it’s not always possible to offer practical support to every person you meet who is suffering. Sometimes all you can do is express empathy, and for many people that appears to be basically meaningless.

blackcat86 · 10/11/2019 07:40

It's very true. People don't want to talk about it and whilst that's ok (a bit shitty but everyone is entitled to their own boundaries) it really annoys me when the same people then post shit all over social media about how much they care, avoiding MH stigma, not knowing someone's struggles etc. I was diagnosed with PND and PNA following a traumatic birth- 9 days in hospital, nearly lost DD. Close family (posting all over social media) never once asked how I was, they still dont. These were my DPs, DB, PIL and DH as well as close friends. When my life fell apart no one had any compassion or gave a shit. My life became easier when I realised how selfish and entitled everyone is and therefore I stopped indulging or doing anything to please.

prawnsword · 10/11/2019 07:41

I have bipolar & don’t like burdening others. you are more likely to see me when am hypo & happy, when am depressed will avoid socialising. It’s not because people won’t understand, I just don’t want to unload my issues onto someone who isn’t able to help. I don’t think we should expect others to understand or help what is going on in our minds. They aren’t health professionals. I have a grandmother who dominates conversations griping about her health issues. It’s draining. I would hate to feel like am draining someone else & bringing their mood down. They aren’t a therapist. Too many people feel like every single thing in their head needs to be vocalised to others. Sometimes we have to suck it up & realise everyone has their own shit to deal with.

Relying on friends to prop you up for mental health is not being a good friend. Having a cuppa & catching up is a perfectly nice thing to do for a friend who is feeling down. But you don’t want to make the whole catch up about you all the time, or the friends will understandably start to avoid you because you’re a drain on their emotions.

In my experience it is people with borderline personality behaviours or who refuse to go on medication who use guilt, manipulation & expect way too much of their friends to prop them up mentally. When someone starts using mental health as an excuse for their behaviour & to manipulate you, it’s a red flag & you should step back from that person IMO.

Sofast · 10/11/2019 08:00

I think everyone is so busy and pushed these days. My mum suffers badly and I do my best to be there for her but I have to work, believe me if I could be a sahm I would but we cant afford it, this means I can only spend time with mum physically twice a week and while she wants to ring me for hour long chats every day it's very draining and I cant give her all the support she needs as I've got my husband and kids to look after and organise etc. I'd love to have more time for people but I'm rushed off my feet and tbh I'd love a little me time to. Everyone is expected to have/do it all and its not working. If a friend called having a crisis I'd be there in a heartbeat but something else (maybe something minor like missing swimming with my kids or maybe something bigger) would slide temporarily. I dont think anyone has enough free time

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