...to hold on to teenagers' phones when they are here for a sleepover

[dubmumof2]

Quick background - my teenage DC (15 & 13) are not and have never been allowed their phones overnight in their bedrooms for both sleep and safety reasons. They set their phones to charge downstairs before going up to bed. I have in the past had to charge a phone in my bedroom for a period when I discovered that a phone was being retrieved in secret when the house was gone to bed!

I've always had a similar rule for sleepovers - phones are handed over at 12 midnight or 12.30am and charged in my room (not downstairs from experience). Everyone is informed of where their phone is and told that if they want to talk to parents etc in the night that is fine - they can have their phone from me. I have lots of reasons - concern for what they may watch when I'm asleep, concern for the potential ideas that groups can spur on to film sleeping friends and post them (illegally!), know of middle of the night sorties to meet other groups having sleepovers arranged by phone. I feel I am in loco parentis and those are risks I'm not willing to take.

Had two new 13 year old friends last night for the first time. Group including regular sleepover attendees and new then considered this rule very unreasonable and I spent from 12.30am to 4.30am defending it, preventing numerous attempts to get the phones back by stealth or argument, and addressing charges that I wasn't allowed to keep them from their phones......

I didn't budge and am unlikely to revise the rule but AIBU? Do any of you have similar rules or am I an outlier here?

Depends missmouse on their background and history. Some kids do need support at all hours. You may be lucky and have children that are not needy.

Haven't read the full thread, but If it were me, that would be the last time the impudent child who argued the toss stayed at my house

I think they'd have already made that decision for you.

"Impudent" because they object to their own property being arbitrarily removed by some bossy adult they hardly know?

With regard to the 'I don't necessarily know or trust you' 'so don't send your kid to sleep at my house then' thing:

I have 3dc who all go for regular sleepovers, or host them themselves.

I don't know all the parents at my dc's sleepovers because why would I? They're probably perfectly nice, but I'd be a fool not to acknowledge that they might not be. Equally, not every kid invited to crash at mine has parents who have had a long acquaintance with me. Why should they generously assume that I'm definitely risk free? I might quite easily not be, or have a dp who isn't.

The OP has already made it clear that she doesn't know the parents of the new sleepover kids. So, they don't know her or who is in her household, either.

If you have a house rule that 'there are no sleepovers unless I personally know the parents' then that's entirely reasonable, I guess, but I'm not convinced it's much of a safeguard.

You have NO idea if the host's dad has a tendency to grab his dd's friends' bums if he passes them on the landing on their way back from the loo, or if the host's older brother might be joining your ds & his mate & encouraging them to watch a film you wouldn't sanction.

You are in the position of balancing risk (bad stuff might happen, but I've mitigated it because I know the parents & they seem nice) against restricting your dc's social life (bad things might happen & I'm not prepared to risk that). There aren't easy answers because you CANNOT say that the adults in the house aren't a risk. Simple as that.

The phones thing is almost a side issue; yeah, un policed phone use might open them up to well, exactly the same risks that you accepted when you put that phone in their hand, except it might happen after midnight 🤷🏻‍♀️

As I've said before, I think 'no phone use in the bedroom, you'll be up all night & might egg each other on to risky unreasonable behaviour' is quite sensible.

Confiscating phones is too far. On a practical level, it's also completely unenforceable for guests 'oh my phone? I left it at home actually.' Or 'oh sure, here you go!' .

I'm all for pragmatism with teenagers...pick your battles.

Yanbu. Pre mobiles kids went on sleepovers and any issues spoke to host mum.

The kind of situations where I would hope my teens would use a discreet text would be something like peer pressure to do something they didn't want to, alcohol for example or egging each other on to do something dangerous. They send a text and i call the host or the dc back inventing a reason they have to come home. Teen saves face in front of their friends but gets out of a situation. I see this as a positive improvement to my experience as a teenager where I went along with things I didn't want to do because of peer pressure. I really don't see this as snowflake behaviour i see it as one available tool for them to help keep themselves safe. Once they are at secondary school, particularly the later years, it's unrealistic to know all their friends and their parents. You have to give them the tools to look after themselves and to me their phone is part of that. If you don't trust them to behave appropriately then i just wouldn't do sleepovers.

@ragged there's nothing magical about turning 18, but at 18 you are legally an adult. At this point my kids are free to do what they want. However, if they still live with me, they will also still respect certain rules. For example, we have no phones at mealtimes. I expect everyone to follow this in my house, regardless of age. I'm very happy to respect house rules when I visit others, too. It's not difficult and it's something I hope my kids will learn too.
I don't think smartphones are very safe for teens. My kid has a dumb phone. He can access the internet through a family tablet in the family room. He will get a smart phone in a few months when he turns 13, as he'll need to learn how to deal with technology. I intend to help him. I also know that as he's a kid, he'll mess up.
We wouldn't give a toddler full sized cutlery and a steak knife. We wouldn't put a young kid in a bike without stabilizers or holding on to the bike. We wouldn't expect a kid to use the bus without having practised it. Mobile phones are no different. Kids (and 13 year olds are def kids) need help, guidance and rules around smartphones. The OPs rule about not letting a group of teens have access to their phones seems entirely logical to me.

If I was a teen i think I would have been mortified if my mum took my friends' phones away, also hate to admit it but even at 15 (15 years ago, so I had my own phone) I was a little bit scared of the dark and unfamiliar places so unless I was staying at a friend's house I knew really well I would have hated the idea of sleeping without my phone as it was a source of comfort for me if I couldn't sleep or just need reassurance. I think the OP would be in her right to turn off the internet (although it's likely the teens would have had mobile data) but it was wrong of her to take the girls' phones.

Yes because that would be incredibly traumatic hmm besides camera phones have been around a while - I don’t think sharing pictures of people asleep (if this ever was a thing?? And if so, who would give a shit or find that interesting?) is something young people would find particularly funny or exciting nowadays - lots of other things you can do on phones (by which I don’t mean messaging strangers and arranging a meet up hmm) I hate to say it but it sounds like you are a bit stuck in 2003 .

One of my DDs has narcolepsy. Other kids do find it hilarious to take photos of her when she's sleeping. Especially if she's in a random position or somewhere 'funny'.

Generally kids aren't malicious, but they are thoughtless. It might only be two or three days of ridicule at school, but that's still two or three days that the child has to endure.

It's funny how standard advice is no phones in bedrooms overnight and no unsupervised internet access - except when there is a group of kids who are more likely to egg each other on and whose phones you have no idea of the parental settings of. Totally random.

The only thing I'd say is that you should be open with the other parents. Although randomly I find, especially after around 11/12, parents don't really bother and sometimes seem surprised that I don't allow sleepovers to purely be arranged between the kids.

I'm also very happy to see my kids accommodate themselves to 'my gaff my rules' stuff on sleepovers.

My 15yo ds has one mate whose mum has a thing about insisting that her own ds, & visiting chums, shower & change out of school uniform into something else literally the minute they arrive home from school.

She cannot bear grubby teenage boys apparently, so they must all be showered & in clean tracksuit bottoms & tshirts.

I know her quite well (she's a friend) & think she's mildly batshit on this one, but her house her rules.

She hosts absolutely epic sleepovers by all accounts, with amazing food & films in their cinema room - she just has this one thing about teenagers being grotty after school.

So ds cheerfully packs an extra set of clean T-shirt, joggers & underwear if this particular lad invites him over for the night.

It's a family idiosyncrasy & easy to go along with.

Same with 'no phone use after midnight' which is FINE as opposed to 'all your phones are in my bedroom', which is...odd.

Why? If they’re with adults you and they trust then that is what ensures they are safe. If your child is having an asthma attack, how will a phone help them?

@SmileEachDay do you have teenagers? They make new friends at school and go for sleepovers , you may meet the parents at the door. I go to the door and give my number to the parents because ds is only 12 but I certainly don't know these parents well and neither does the dc because they are the parents of his friend. It's totally different to primary school where you have grown up with the children and know the parents very well.

My ds is more than capable of taking his inhaler if he needs it, but I would want to know if he's ok or if he doesn't feel well. Is a 12 year old going to go around another persons house to wake up the adults to tell them something.

I think you are a controlling bully.

Parents are meant to be controlling Tvstar

@Drizzzle there's a difference in being in control and being controlling

In a group sleepover I'd definitely rather no kids had a phone over night at anyone's house. I can cut my kids phones off remotely including my 15yo.

drizzle she is not their parent. That is tbe whole point!!

@dubmumof2 I too have my children put their phones on charge overnight in the dining room. My youngest DD regularly has a friend sleep round and she too puts her phone on charge with everyone else's at bedtime. She knows she can pop down to use it to contact her mum but also knows she can ask me to contact her mum for her too!

Teens don't think of their phones like you or I think of our phones. You're out of order and controlling - they aren't babies. Have a rethink around how you're going to get through the next couple of years as your kids go out, learn how to make mistakes and separate from you. I fear you're going to struggle if you keep thinking like this. Good luck.

YANBU, can't believe some of the responses you're getting OP. Same rule in our house, no phones in bedrooms and no, my kids are not social outcasts! They can still watch tv, netflix etc. This thread really shines a light on the world we're in where some parents seem to lack so much confidence in themselves that they are unable to say no to their kids. I think its pretty worrying that parents are completely ok with their kids staying overnight in a house with adults they've never met 'as long as they've got their phone' Really?! Surely if you're at a sleepover and you have an issue you speak to your host friend? Or their parent? If you don't trust your kids friends or parents enough to think this is reasonable then why on earth are you allowing them to go on a sleepover?

I'd be furious with you OP. DD has always had a discrete secret safe word to text me if she's in a difficult or stressful situation. You'd be preventing her from using that because she'd have to explain herself to get past your policing. Not acceptable.

You may not trust your DC but I trust mine.

YANBU at all, in fact its a bloody good idea. I see the phones are only in your room because the children have previously abused your trust.

There's a lot of whataboutery on this thread - of course there's nothing magical about after midnight, except that the wee hours have less - zero parental presence. The number of safeguarding concerns phones raise is staggering - they can do without it for one night. And if your child can't? Well, your child your rules and you can refuse such invitations as you see fit, and probably should as a lot of these examples demonstrate that those particular children are not suited to sleepover activities anyway.

The only way you were U in OP was in not contacting the stranger kids parents, and explaining your rules as part of that. Irrelevant now as they'll never be returning, but a good thing to remember for next time.

maloo as your dc get older you have to start letting go.

No, it's the controlling parents who are inadequate. People who can't treat other people as reasonable, autonymous humans are invariably failures and aware of it. They know they are not particularly clever, charming, successful or attractive. No one among their peers has ever taken them very seriously, so once they become parents - or get a job which gives them even the tiniest amount of authority - they start inventing all sorts of rules and trying to enforce them - and frequently failing at that. If you ever encounter anyone shouting about how they want 'respect', you're always going to be looking at a failure.

Good parenting involves teaching your kids, from a very early age, that they don't have to obey adults no matter what. Rules should always be explained and justified (even when the justification is no more specific than'because doing this would hurt someone else's feelings' )

I wouldn’t be happy about someone else deciding when my child can have their phone that I pay for.

pugparty I don't understand your point about people 'lacking confidence to say no to their child' This IS NOT HER CHILD!!!