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Original poster

AIBU to ask for your best comeback to this work colleague...

310 replies

Seraphina77 · 06/11/2019 22:27

A male work colleague today said to me that employed women/men who choose not to have children should still be entitled to take 12 months off, paid at the equivalent of maternity/paternity pay because "then it's fair".

I was completely sidelined and apart from explaining to him that maternity/paternity leave is not a holiday, I couldn't get my brain in gear quick enough to come up with a cogent argument in response!

Help me out mumsnet... how would you have responded???

OP posts:
chipsychopsy · 08/11/2019 11:42

Hold on, maternity leave isn't given for the mother it's given to the child. See also CHILD benefit and tax credits.

It's the recognition that children are vulnerable, and a secure home with a mother who is present for the post natal period, and a household that can provide basic food and clothing, is the least we can provide for a society which is dependent on these children growing into healthy, well balanced adults.

I don't get how hard this is to grasp.

ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens · 08/11/2019 11:46

Hold on, maternity leave isn't given for the mother it's given to the child.

Not true. You are still eligible if you have your child adopted straight away, or your child goes to live with the other parent, for example.

ThatMuppetShow · 08/11/2019 11:47

Do you honestly think parents have it easy? Maybe if you got your “personal leave” you should then be made to pay the equivalent of all average childcare costs for the next 18 years. That would be fair too.

That's a ridiculous point. I know how it works for parents, I CHOSE to have 4 kids. The childcare care is a CHOICE - you cannot seriously complain about them.

Why are you so jealous about the idea of (non-parents) people given the opportunity of "personal" leave?
Why are you so against the possibility of people travelling, renovating their home, studying, taking care of a sick sibling, an elderly parent, a dying partner - or just having a BREAK, taking a 3 months honeymoon or a 6 months unpaid leave to breathe.
Are you resenting your own kids and thinking your life is unfairly harder than if you didn't have them?

Lweji · 08/11/2019 11:47

Sure - if I can also have 18 years of child benefit and working tax credits.

You're missing the point. Those are for the children. Not the parents.

Lweji · 08/11/2019 11:47

And they hardly cover the true costs.

catspyjamas123 · 08/11/2019 11:48

Personally I don’t get any child tax credits or child benefits. Don’t assume everyone has them. I think you’d find the cost of childcare massively outweighs them anyway and it would be a lot cheaper for you just to save up and have a gap year.

catspyjamas123 · 08/11/2019 11:49

The point is this is leave for having a baby. It’s a hard won right and I am shocked to see so many women not showing a little solidarity.

SunshineAngel · 08/11/2019 11:50

I know what he's saying, but he's being a bit dim. He must think maternity leave is just a nice, snuggly year off. We all know that's far from the case, and many parents feel like when they go BACK to work, the pressure is off a little!

TheGoogleMum · 08/11/2019 11:54

Maternity leave isn't a holiday! Especially the shock to the system of first child. Mothers bodies can be a mess after childbirth, need time to recover. Babies are 24 hour for a while at least and in general it's a big life adjustment. I don't know how anyone can think it's just a lovely relaxing time always :/

SouthernComforts · 08/11/2019 11:55

I just want a year off to lie on a beach and read a book without a screaming baby sucking all the joy out of it, is this too much to ask??

.. I can dream

catspyjamas123 · 08/11/2019 11:56

@ThatMuppetShow the point is also that keeping mothers in employment is a good thing for the taxpayer too. Much better than having them stay home and live off universal credit and much better for their children too. After all there is another person to support now. I don’t resent my children and I took a modest amount of maternity leave. Men with partners or childless women with female partners also benefit from those partners have maternity leave. People who don’t have children can look forward to taking it if they do.

Some people may not be suitable to adopt but we can hardly force kids who have already had a bad start into unsuitable homes just to make maternity leave fair.

There is also surrogate parenthood.

ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens · 08/11/2019 12:00

And they hardly cover the true costs

I'm sceptical. I remember helping a colleague who was a parent sort out an overtime issue at work. My eyes nearly fell out of my head when he showed me his salary slips. My taxes take a chunk off my gross wage. His 'tax credits' actually made his net pay higher than his gross pay!

Besidesthepoint · 08/11/2019 12:02

Maternity leave isn't a holiday! Especially the shock to the system of first child. Mothers bodies can be a mess after childbirth, need time to recover.

In the rest of the world most mothers are recovered after two months. Funny that.

Besidesthepoint · 08/11/2019 12:02

I felt fine three weeks after childbirth.

ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens · 08/11/2019 12:03

it would be a lot cheaper for you just to save up and have a gap year.

Even if this is true, the point is I wouldn't have any right to get my old job back.

Lweji · 08/11/2019 12:04

I went to a Congress when DS was 2 months.
Longer time is mostly to allow the child to stay at home and with the mother.

ThatMuppetShow · 08/11/2019 12:04

Maternity leave isn't a holiday! Especially the shock to the system of first child. Mothers bodies can be a mess after childbirth, need time to recover. Babies are 24 hour for a while at least and in general it's a big life adjustment. I don't know how anyone can think it's just a lovely relaxing time always :/

because not ALL mothers need 12 months to recover, and that many of us start functioning pretty normally after 3 - 4 months.
I do agree that we need 12 months if we want them - I have always the most I could get! - but yes, it's a kind of a holiday with your baby for most of us.

The point is that new mothers, and babies, are not the only people who need a break. They should be available for everybody.

Usernumbers1234 · 08/11/2019 12:05

If you’re coming on here to ask for comebacks then you probably aren’t the sort of person who should be delivering them.

He expressed an opinion.

If you hold a different opinion then by all means share it with him.

Why does it have to be a comeback, why all the antagonism?

ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens · 08/11/2019 12:07

And just to add, the colleague who was receiving the huge tax credits had two teenagers, so his tax credits would be unlikely to be going on many, if any, childcare costs.

Newbie7077 · 08/11/2019 12:15

This is all absolutely pointless jibber jabber. You couldnt possibly give childless people time off for the sake of equality because there's no guarantee they won't have a child later on. Even if they were post menopause you could then argue that there is no REASON they should have time off. I don't argue I should have a handicap pass to park near work so that we can all be equal in life

ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens · 08/11/2019 12:19

You couldnt possibly give childless people time off for the sake of equality because there's no guarantee they won't have a child later on.

If you'd read the thread before dismissing it as pointless, you'll see that many of us are advocating periods of leave (paid or unpaid) to be available to all, as a separate provision - something parents could have in addition to maternity/paternity leave.

ThatMuppetShow · 08/11/2019 12:24

I don't argue I should have a handicap pass to park near work so that we can all be equal in life

because that would be stupid.

Why do you think only people with children need time off? That would be stupid too to pretend if you haven't got a newborn, you don't, wouldn't it.

catspyjamas123 · 08/11/2019 12:30

@ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens

If you'd read the thread before dismissing it as pointless, you'll see that many of us are advocating periods of leave (paid or unpaid) to be available to all, as a separate provision - something parents could have in addition to maternity/paternity leave.

Hang on a minute, isn’t there something called holiday pay? Paid to all. Some employers even allow you to save it up and use it in big chunks. You can also request unpaid leave and still have a job to return to.

ThatMuppetShow · 08/11/2019 12:35

isn’t there something called holiday pay? Paid to all.
so you want to stop maternity leave because they can take their holidays?

Some employers even allow you to save it up and use it in big chunks. You can also request unpaid leave and still have a job to return to.
You might be allowed to "request", but not many companies will grant it.

Not sure why posters are so against time off like that.

ScreamingCosArgosHaveNoRavens · 08/11/2019 12:37

Some employers even allow you to save it up and use it in big chunks. You can also request unpaid leave and still have a job to return to.

The key word there is 'some'. There is no statutory right to this. My employer doesn't allow any of those things - I'm sure some employers do, but I don't know of any personally. We are allowed up to two weeks holiday at a time, or three weeks as an exception.

Aside from jobs in schools/academia I don't know any that give more than around six weeks annual leave to their employees, at the most. So even if you were allowed to take it all at once, it's not going to be much of a break and it'd mean 10 months of the year with no time off whatsoever, not even an odd day.